[Hong Wu]

I'm doing sabre fencing next. In this version you get to slash people. While it sounds awesome in theory, I've been watching Olympic-level sabre fencing and it's pretty underwhelming to watch. Still, I found fencing was way more entertaining to do than to watch...

[SolarCross]

I'm doing sabre fencing next. In this version you get to slash people. While it sounds awesome in theory, I've been watching Olympic-level sabre fencing and it's pretty underwhelming to watch. Still, I found fencing was way more entertaining to do than to watch...

The sabre is a very decent weapon if a bit short. I've just ordered a flamberge greatsword waster from blackfencer and a spear head waster (need to get my own shaft for it) as well. There are no clubs near me but I have decently large practice space at home. I figured if I trained with a big sword (weighs over 2kg) it'll be a pretty good work out if nothing else.



One day I'll get this beast for test cutting...

[Victoribus Spolia]

@Hong Wu, @SolarCross,

The Rapier is the superior weapon of western swordsmanship.

Its efficiency was not matched until the bullet became accurate.

It has arguably the best reach of any single handed weapon and the Spanish style makes for a low-energy easy kill efficiency by simply understanding the benefits of circular walking patterns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destreza

This looks very close to my rapier:



This will be my next buy:



The etching in the blade reads: Christus Imperat (Christ Commands).

[annatar1914]

This will be my next buy:



The etching in the blade reads: Christus Imperat (Christ Commands).

Very nice

[Hong Wu]

That's pretty cool, maybe I should order one once I settle down if I keep doing fencing. I'll need some kind of sword. I sort of want a katana too. I once found a store in Ginza, Tokyo that sold real katanas. You could tell they were real because man, they were filthy, which was kind of amazing since Ginza is a place that sells things like US$3,000 jackets that look like they're made out of garbage bags...

I also sort of want a sword cane because then my fencing is theoretically potentially useful in terms of training

[Victoribus Spolia]

I also sort of want a sword cane because then my fencing is theoretically potentially useful in terms of training

I've thought of that as well,

you should check out Bartitsu, which was the "martial art of Sherlock Holmes" and european martial art that put emphasis on grappling, fencing, cane-fighting, english-style boxing, and french kick-boxing and drew influences from Eastern martial arts like Jujitsu.



Here is the wikipedia article on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu

its experiencing a revival in the MMA environment and is popular among HEMA guys.....there are DVDs and books on Amazon for it.

ALSO:

check out Burger Canes if you want a cool cane sword.

[SolarCross]

The Rapier is the superior weapon of western swordsmanship.

Its efficiency was not matched until the bullet became accurate.

It has arguably the best reach of any single handed weapon and the Spanish style makes for a low-energy easy kill efficiency by simply understanding the benefits of circular walking patterns.

It is not a battlefield weapon though. It is optimal only for one on one duels between unarmoured opponents who are not taking anything longer than a rapier which is a pretty special case. You are over selling it a bit.

^ if you can wear gauntlets then the advantages of enclosed guards become disadvantages. The medieval crossgaurd and the japanese disc guard assume the user will be taking it with him on the battlefield (not usually as a primary weapon though) and will be armoured up including gauntlets of some kind. Armour also changes the dynamics of reach a bit because the more armoured up you are the more hits you can tank without damage while closing the distance, once distance is closed then reach advantages become disadvantages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destreza

This looks very close to my rapier:



This will be my next buy:



The etching in the blade reads: Christus Imperat (Christ Commands).

Very nice, very nice indeed.

[Victoribus Spolia]

It is not a battlefield weapon though. It is optimal only for one on one duels between unarmoured opponents who are not taking anything longer than a rapier which is a pretty special case. You are over selling it a bit.

Thats fair, but the OP is about dueling, not a return to medieval warfare.

Armour also changes the dynamics of reach a bit because the more armoured up you are the more hits you can tank without damage while closing the distance, once distance is closed then reach advantages become disadvantages.

Well, part of the reason armored conflict ended, besides the long-bow, was because the methodology of using the point instead of the blade-edge came to make armor superfluous.

Hell, even the method of using long-swords evolved into rapier-like point-use emphasis.

It was inevitable, for cutting strikes, especially with two-handed weapons, almost always allow for exposure and any armor that allows for movement MUST have areas of vulnerability for a pointed thrust.

As an aside; I would also encourage anyone to check out rapiers vs. sabres, and even rapiers or sabres v. kitanas on youtube.

Besides the Rapier being the better performer in general (assuming a skilled swordsman), Japanese swordsmanship was never that impressive to Europeans, its all WEEBO hype, their craftsmanship was respected and there is record of some good reviews by British officers, but generally europeans were far more intrigued by Japanese hand-to-hand techniques, not so much with their sword-fighting.

I think the Schola Gladitoria video is spot-on and I also say this from my experience of sparring against long-swords and sabres with my rapier.

Very nice, very nice indeed.

This rapier is a battle-ready functional replica of an actual English Rapier that is housed in the Royal Armouries (formerly the Tower of London).

[Red_Army]

When gate keeping and mall ninjas collide

[Victoribus Spolia]

Don't be hatin on my swagger or my dagger.

[Red_Army]

It's just nerdy, but you do you, bud. How much is that shiny one gonna cost?

[Victoribus Spolia]

How much is that shiny one gonna cost?

There are a couple of places that make it, atleast $300.00.

My practice rapier for sparring which is also pictured above was like $175.00

Look RA, i don't know how you grew up, but I loved "mock sword fighting" with whiffle ball bats and sticks when I was a kid....doing sparring with an actual rapier just feels right at a deep psychological level. Its loads of fun. Just sayin.'

You should look up some HEMA groups up in your neck of the woods....you won't be disappointed.

[Red_Army]

Ya that is probably pretty fun. There are so many hobbies. I got into archery not long ago, but with a compound bow. It's pretty fun and I'm sure longbows are as well.

[Hong Wu]

Hmmm that reminds me, I haven't done archery in years...

TBH what I really want is some kind of reliquary but they don't seem to be on sale very often.

[Red_Army]

You've also never fucked for years. Should you be interested in birth control now, @Hong Wu?

[Hong Wu]

You've also never fucked for years. Should you be interested in birth control now, @Hong Wu?

For some reason, you remind me of this guy I used to play computer games with who would always have a huge handicap and would gloat madly every time he won.

[SolarCross]

Well, part of the reason armored conflict ended, besides the long-bow, was because the methodology of using the point instead of the blade-edge came to make armor superfluous.

Hell, even the method of using long-swords evolved into rapier-like point-use emphasis.

It was inevitable, for cutting strikes, especially with two-handed weapons, almost always allow for exposure and any armor that allows for movement MUST have areas of vulnerability for a pointed thrust.

Ok now you have triggered my "someone is wrong on the internet" reflexes. Errors:

1. The longbow got long through trying to remain relevant in a era where armour technology was rapidly developing. But unless you want to replace your archers with orangutans hand drawn bows could get no higher drawweight and thus power whereas armour could still get thicker, cover more and get more layers. The longbow was done on the battlefield by the 14th century while battlefield armour reached its peak in the 16th century and was still worn in significant mumbers even in the 17th century. You will note that in the English Civil War where muskets were fielded in place of archery even common pikemen would be armoured with a cuirass, tassets and helmet.

2. The emphasis of thrusting points over cutting in hand weapon design similarly was a response to the profusion of quantity and quality of armour however that was a response to keep those weapons relevant against armour. Pointy bits did nothing to make armour obsolete because even thrusting points have few targets suitable to exploit in a well armoured harness, so just by reducing the areas of vulnerablilty means the armour is doing something very worthwhile.

3. Firearms were what obsoleted armour (and then only temporarily see point 4). The reason being that bullets could go through even the thickest parts of armour that wasn't unwearably heavy meaning you were better off without armour against bullets. Even in Napoleonic times, cavaly often still wore a cuirass though because while it offered no protection against musket balls it was still pretty good at keeping internal organs safe from sabres, bayonets and shrapnel.

4. Armour has come back in force in the modern era and I am not even talking about kevlar I am talking about tanks. The solution to the problem of how to make armour thick enough to resist firearms while still being able to move about in it was to replace the muscle powered motor unit with a combustion engine.



The knight in shining armour reborn from the ashes of cordite.

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Here is a question for everyone:

Could, would and should armour be permissable in modern duelling?

Come at me bro!

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[Baff]

I strongly recommend Football Hooligan as a martial art.
Dojo fighters= lame.

[Missus V. Spolia.]

I do think some of the european martial arts stuff is pretty nerdy....especially when you start wearing armor and funny hats.

Sorry @Victoribus Spolia.

Though, you haven't gone that far yet, so I can't complain.

[ingliz]

Could, would and should armour be permissable in modern duelling?

It's up to you but...

An FK BRNO field pistol's proprietary 7.5mm, 95 grain, legal ie. 'non-armour piercing' bullet (muzzle velocity 2,100 fps, delivering 900ft/lbs of energy) will penetrate a 111A plate at 50yds and kevlar II soft armour at 100yds.

[youtube]-nc-VGgg6Ec[/youtube]