[Truth To Power]

How many sex offenders are men who are 40+ or how many sex crimes are committed by older men as opposed to teen boys? This is significant.

There is a difference between "horny" and "pedophile." Obviously, the older a chronic offender is, the greater the statistical likelihood they will get caught. Sex offenders who have been getting away with it for decades tend to get overconfident and careless, and that's when they get caught.

I don't need to be a teenage boy or older man.

You do if you want to pass judgment on them when you don't have any actual data.

I can see statistics and read academic and clinical studies.

But do you? Where are your data and clinical studies?

No, actually if my mom had had an abortion, I wouldn't be here.

No, actually that is just one possible way out of trillions that you wouldn't be here. If ANY of your ancestors had not had sex with the partner who also thus became your ancestor, you would not be here. And if you think they all observed the niceties of consent that you claim teenage boys should have to either observe with teenage girls or go to jail, then you are deluded.

I watched the clip.

Just not very attentively, it seems...

She said the boys were "bouncing" on her. She laughed because the boys were laughing.

And gave every appearance of having enjoyed it.

If she had been normal, she would've been nervous about being in a room with 3 boys.

Because you would have been?

It's one thing to be curious about sex. But to have sex with strangers and have a bottle up her vagina, that's not the usual type of sexual interaction.

Lots of consensual sexual activities aren't "usual," especially with boys who don't actually know what they are doing.

This is gang rape.

Garbage. Just because they did things with her that you find distasteful does not make it rape.

How do you know?

By being willing to know facts, such as the fact that people have evolved to be attracted to and enjoy sexual activity well before age 18. There is no doubt that plenty of your ancestors were born to women under 18. You just apparently can't find a willingness to know that fact.

Have you ever been a young, innocent female who was betrayed by someone and forced into sex?

As I said, the threats, lying, betrayal, etc. are often more harmful than the sex, even leaving aside any actual violence.

You do realize that strangers can be violent and the penetration can actually hurt?

Or not. And you do realize that consensual sex can also hurt, at any age?

[Truth To Power]

Why didn't one of the defendants simply boast about this conquest like he had in others? This appears in the cross examination.

Maybe because that was the one that actually happened?

It seems even he knew she couldn't consent.

That is merely your opinion. Maybe it was just that she wasn't one of the popular, higher-status girls he could gain other boys' respect by claiming, even if falsely, to have "conquered."

[MistyTiger]

There is a difference between "horny" and "pedophile." Obviously, the older a chronic offender is, the greater the statistical likelihood they will get caught. Sex offenders who have been getting away with it for decades tend to get overconfident and careless, and that's when they get caught.

The initiator of the sex must be a horny individual. If the male is not horny, he would not have the urge to have sex. A pedophile is horny to begin with. A horny person is horny. A horny individual might be a repeat offender for sex crimes.

And gave every appearance of having enjoyed it.

The actress looked a bit sheepish or unfocused at times. I sensed some hesitation. Her voice lacked a certain degree of certainty. She went along with it because she was curious. But she wasn't the one who was talking dirty or actively encouraging the boys to fuck her. She looked innocent and inexperienced. She dressed in a crop top and mini skirt because other girls her age dressed that way, peer pressure. Young people are very susceptible to peer pressure.

Lots of consensual sexual activities aren't "usual," especially with boys who don't actually know what they are doing.

That doesn't make it okay. Her father was very distressed. He believed those boys took advantage of his daughter. If I were a parent, I would not want to see my daughter engaging in group sex with random boys who don't care for her feelings at all.

Garbage. Just because they did things with her that you find distasteful does not make it rape.

She didn't initiate it. She never explicitly said she wanted sex with them. She did not seduce them.

Not every young girl wants sex in school from a group of boys all at once. Some girls actually want to wait to find the one who truly loves them. The actress in this clip has a certain fragility and innocence. She didn't understand that the boys were making fun of her, using her and didn't care about her pleasure. But in her poise and posture, she seemed to be uncomfortable and her mouth was scrunched up. Anytime a person scrunches up their mouth or face, they are feeling uneasy inside. She seemed to be wriggling in her seat as well. If she was calm and sitting still, then I'd believe that she truly enjoyed the sex.

[Godstud]

Just because they did things with her that you find distasteful does not make it rape.

That's true.

@MistyTiger There is a huge difference between not enjoying something, or it making them feel uncomfortable, and it being a sexual assault. We have to differentiate between a perception and an actual crime taking place.

It's like if a 35 year old dates a 19 year old. Some people think it's exploitation because they think it's creepy, whereas they are both consenting adults. No crime is taking place unless there is an actual crime taking place.

[wat0n]

Maybe because that was the one that actually happened?

That is merely your opinion. Maybe it was just that she wasn't one of the popular, higher-status girls he could gain other boys' respect by claiming, even if falsely, to have "conquered."

The prosecutor also asked him, and the defendant did not contradict him in cross examination. Of course, one could also wonder why wasn't she one of those popular, high status girls. Maybe having the psychological profile of a 10-year old had something to do with that.

[Truth To Power]

The initiator of the sex must be a horny individual.

No, you are wrong again. Sometimes people initiate sex for other reasons than desire.

If the male is not horny, he would not have the urge to have sex.

Question begging.

A pedophile is horny to begin with. A horny person is horny. A horny individual might be a repeat offender for sex crimes.

You seem to be having a lot of trouble telling the difference between sexual desire and criminality.

The actress looked a bit sheepish or unfocused at times. I sensed some hesitation. Her voice lacked a certain degree of certainty. She went along with it because she was curious.

More accurately, she appeared not to be very clear on what the big deal was.

But she wasn't the one who was talking dirty or actively encouraging the boys to fuck her. She looked innocent and inexperienced. She dressed in a crop top and mini skirt because other girls her age dressed that way, peer pressure.

But when boys respond to such deliberately provocative stimuli and try to do something about it, they are just rapists? Is that it?

Young people are very susceptible to peer pressure.

Unless they are boys, then they are just rapists? Is that it?

That doesn't make it okay.

Lots of things that are not OK are nevertheless not crimes.

Her father was very distressed.

Bingo. Her father was distressed. She self-evidently wasn't. Try to get that through your head.

He believed those boys took advantage of his daughter.

Yeah, and if she were 29 and a career officer in the Navy, he would probably still think so.

If I were a parent, I would not want to see my daughter engaging in group sex with random boys who don't care for her feelings at all.

What you would not want to see is not an appropriate basis for sending teenage boys to prison and wrecking their lives, sorry.

She didn't initiate it. She never explicitly said she wanted sex with them. She did not seduce them.

You mean, like in 90% of consensual sex between adults...?

Not every young girl wants sex in school from a group of boys all at once.

But some do.

Some girls actually want to wait to find the one who truly loves them.

And some don't.

The actress in this clip has a certain fragility and innocence. She didn't understand that the boys were making fun of her, using her and didn't care about her pleasure. But in her poise and posture, she seemed to be uncomfortable and her mouth was scrunched up. Anytime a person scrunches up their mouth or face, they are feeling uneasy inside. She seemed to be wriggling in her seat as well. If she was calm and sitting still, then I'd believe that she truly enjoyed the sex.

Or maybe she was just uncomfortable because so many adults in positions of authority were making such a big public deal of something she preferred to consider a private matter between her and the boys.

[Truth To Power]

The prosecutor also asked him, and the defendant did not contradict him in cross examination.

Yeah, well, that was probably asking a lot of a teenage boy's powers of introspection.

Of course, one could also wonder why wasn't she one of those popular, high status girls. Maybe having the psychological profile of a 10-year old had something to do with that.

Quite likely. And your point would be...?

[wat0n]

Quite likely. And your point would be...?

...That she was seen as low status because she doesn't have a mental capacity to do things like, you know, consenting to sex.

[Truth To Power]

...That she was seen as low status because she doesn't have a mental capacity to do things like, you know, consenting to sex.

No, the testimony she gave in the clip gave no indication of any such incapacity. It was merely the opinion of the "expert" witness, and another expert could well disagree. Far more likely, the boys initiated the encounter precisely because she was legally of age to consent, and they had reason to believe she would consent.

[Tainari88]

...That she was seen as low status because she doesn't have a mental capacity to do things like, you know, consenting to sex.

I really hate with a passion and I do mean hate, people who take advantage of other people's vulnerabilities. That is the very definition of predatory and evil people. People who beat up on vulnerable people. Take advantage of the low hanging fruit in life. Despicable low lives Wat0n.

If ever I punish anyone severely it will be some kind of offense about taking advantage of someone vulnerable. Crimes against the elderly, and the young, and the ones who suffer through some disability and people make fun of them and or take advantage of them or exploit that vulnerability to enrich themselves, or to bully or intimidate and hurt those in those positions.

That gets me extremely angry Wat0n.

Now, @Truth To Power stated this

That is eerily reminiscent of the future-fascist parody in "Starship Troopers." A nation of people that could fall for such crassly manipulative tripe is already finished.

You got this amount of people voting for the trope.

Joe Biden
Donald Trump
306 Electoral Votes
232 Electoral Votes
81,282,916 votes
74,223,369 votes
51.3%
46.9%

75 million total assholes voting for a trope.

[MistyTiger]

@Godstud @Truth To Power

So it's not a crime because the girl wasn't badly beaten and rushed to the ER and near death's door? It's fortunate that the boys didn't choke her and beat her up severely. I've read about some bloody crime scenes where the victim was beaten so badly. All it takes is for one individual to go overboard and do insane acts on a person, for who the fuck knows why. It's fucking irrational.

And Truth To Power, you seem to be thinking that the boys don't deserve to be on trial simply because they are young boys. Well let me tell you something, age doesn't matter if the heart and soul are already rotten inside. Bullies in school are young and ruthless, they don't feel guilt for the negativity they unleash on their victims. Teens can be bad. If the girl was nearly dead because of the fun, would you still be defending them?

Those boys showed no sign of remorse. They are bad. I wouldn't want anybody I know to associate with the likes of them. If they get worse as they get older, then they are future criminals who think they can get away with anything. But not every judge will be so lenient.

In law class, we discussed how anyone can commit a crime if they are pushed to do it due to a personal circumstance or they are given an opportunity to do wrong, in order to further themselves. It's hard to pass up these kinds of opportunities.

[Godstud]

@Misty I never said this wasn't a crime. I was referring to a generality, and not a particular instance, like this one. This is most definitely a heinous crime, in the above case.

75 million total assholes voting for a trope.

Calling 75 million people assholes shows more about your lack of character than theirs. Do better.

[Truth To Power]

So it's not a crime because the girl wasn't badly beaten and rushed to the ER and near death's door?

No, you are just makin $#!+ up again.

It's not a crime because no one's rights were violated. Try to get that through your head.

It's fortunate that the boys didn't choke her and beat her up severely. I've read about some bloody crime scenes where the victim was beaten so badly. All it takes is for one individual to go overboard and do insane acts on a person, for who the fuck knows why. It's fucking irrational.

And it does not in any way resemble what happened in this fictional representation.

And Truth To Power, you seem to be thinking that the boys don't deserve to be on trial simply because they are young boys.

No, they don't deserve to be on trial because they didn't violate anyone's rights.

Well let me tell you something, age doesn't matter if the heart and soul are already rotten inside.

The law cannot concern itself with whether people are already rotten inside, only with what they DO. Try to get that through your head, too.

Bullies in school are young and ruthless, they don't feel guilt for the negativity they unleash on their victims. Teens can be bad. If the girl was nearly dead because of the fun, would you still be defending them?

In that case, her rights would have been violated. In this case, they weren't.

Try to get that through your head.

Those boys showed no sign of remorse.

And the girl showed no sign that they had done anything to be remorseful for.

They are bad.

That is your opinion. Your opinion does not determine whether other people's rights to liberty should be forcibly removed, sorry.

I wouldn't want anybody I know to associate with the likes of them.

So anyone you think is an inappropriate associate for the people you know should be put in prison???

Somehow, I kinda figured it'd be something like that...

If they get worse as they get older, then they are future criminals who think they can get away with anything. But not every judge will be so lenient.

But with luck, judges will make their determinations based on what those men have actually done, not your opinion of their character flaws.

In law class, we discussed how anyone can commit a crime if they are pushed to do it due to a personal circumstance or they are given an opportunity to do wrong, in order to further themselves. It's hard to pass up these kinds of opportunities.

There is a difference between doing wrong and committing a crime. Didn't you cover that in law class?

[wat0n]

I really hate with a passion and I do mean hate, people who take advantage of other people's vulnerabilities. That is the very definition of predatory and evil people. People who beat up on vulnerable people. Take advantage of the low hanging fruit in life. Despicable low lives Wat0n.

If ever I punish anyone severely it will be some kind of offense about taking advantage of someone vulnerable. Crimes against the elderly, and the young, and the ones who suffer through some disability and people make fun of them and or take advantage of them or exploit that vulnerability to enrich themselves, or to bully or intimidate and hurt those in those positions.

That gets me extremely angry Wat0n.

Indeed, or people who sexually take advantage of them.

Those kind of people deserve to be punished.

So yes, going back to the OP: The video makes it clear these guys should have been found guilty.

[Tainari88]

Indeed, or people who sexually take advantage of them.

Those kind of people deserve to be punished.

So yes, going back to the OP: The video makes it clear these guys should have been found guilty.

They were found guilty. The issue became the judge overriding the jury's verdict because he disagreed with their conclusions. The judge was abusing his power.

That was what that Law and Order episode was about.

[wat0n]

Right, and the judge shouldn't have intervened.

[Agent Steel]

The idea of having sex with a complete stranger is revolting to the average person. The fact that they don't mind doing it with total strangers is a definite sign that they're abnormal and not right in the head.

Hi MistyTiger. I don't agree with this statement.

It is actually normal and common for people who don't know each other to be drawn to each other and have consenting sex and for it to be enjoyable.

Where exactly do you pick up the view that it is revolting? It's really not that weird at all.

[FiveofSwords]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z8Tdm2eLrs

I was watching this Law & Order episode about a mentally challenged teen girl who was supposedly taken advantage of by a group of boys, and I noticed all the females bitching in the comments, moaning about how unfair it was the judge overturned the jury's verdict to find the boys guilty.

If I were the judge, that would have totally been me!

Correct decision, in my view.


Some will try to argue that she couldn't really provide full informed "consent".
So a mentally handicapped teenage girl can never have sex with anyone?

If they thought it was so important to protect her, why not send her to an all girls school? You send her to a mixed gender high school, what did they expect was going to happen?

So your 'counterargument' about her not being able to consent was just a question of whether she could ever have sex. The answer would be no. Just like a 3 year old never has sex. Still confused?

[MistyTiger]

Hi MistyTiger. I don't agree with this statement.

It is actually normal and common for people who don't know each other to be drawn to each other and have consenting sex and for it to be enjoyable.

Where exactly do you pick up the view that it is revolting? It's really not that weird at all.

I disagree. Maybe it's because I don't get "drawn" to a strange man who I know nothing about. Thoughts like, "Who is he? Is he a creepy stalker? Does he have a criminal record? Is he a man slut?"...and other questions pop into my head. For me, I have to be comfortable and familiar before I consent to intimacy. I have boundaries. I don't mess around with random men I meet in a coffee house or bar. I know there are consequences and I might regret it.

I actually know what it's like to be stalked. It was minor in my teens, but it creeped me out. The teenage guy would just manage to show up wherever I was during this 6 week summer studies program. He knew my name and I had no idea who he was. I later did find out, but I got upset and started asking classmates questions and they happened to know his name. By then I wanted to punch him in the nose and throttle him. I was furious. He didn't bother trying to get to know me. He'd just say, "Hi pretty girl. I like your style." It just seemed ridiculous. I did not feel flattered at all.

There was another time where an older teacher was trying to seduce me. If another teacher hadn't walked in, he would've tried to get in my pants. It still creeps me out. I knew nothing about him. I'm glad nothing happened.

[Agent Steel]

@MistyTiger

I likewise have to feel comfortable and safe around the person I'm with, but I think maybe as a man I have less reason to fear for my safety. Maybe it's different for women than it is for men, because women have to worry about being physically overpowered and hurt. I don't have this fear because I am generally physically stronger than the average woman.

That said, there still are women who are ok with having sex with strangers. I think it's more common among men, but women are into it too.

I am sorry to hear that you have had several unpleasant and unenjoyable experiences with strange men. But do you think this is the norm for women? Do you think you would have a different view if your past experiences were better?