[Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu]

I think that people should learn common tact and not curse in public.I always feel every embarrassed when I am with a parent and someone does.But if people want to,fine.Freedom of speech.

[fastspawn]

another question. If the word is used not as an insult or cuss, but as a normal conversation piece, is it any better or worse?

For example, "Woah, the movie is fucking cool," vs "piss off you fucking dick"?

[Comrade Nicolae Ceausescu]

Well the first one in my opinoin is more immature.There is no reason to use cuss words as adjectives.That shows an even greater lack of articularity then the second.The second one is obviously used to express emotion.So its not as bad.At least there is a point to it. BTW,this topic is hilarious.

[lookingin]

I guess I'm the true con in this debate. I have no problems with it, public or private. It's protected speech, and God knows I swear like an Irish sailor. I'm not saying it's the best habit, I wish I didn't have it. But hey, sometimes it's the best way to convey the emotion you're putting into what you're fucking saying, fucker.

Ok, that's fucking all.

Goranhammer, thanks for shining the light of truth on this matter once and for all. It is definitely a healthy release for this emotional reaction, just imagine the day you were told that you couldn't even express the least of your anger. It's part of your basic human right, as well as reason for having emotions. What a total outrage that would be! Swearing by itself never killed anyone, and if someone tells you they were hurt by overhearing your swearing, all you have to do is excuse yourself as if you were excusing a cough.

Publically I hardly ever swear at all compared to most people. Hell, a five year old probably swears more than I do. While I don't encourage it, I believe we have to face that swearing is so much now a part of our social world it has become as usual language. It is comparable to casual clothes, instead of a suit and tie. I would rather know a swearing sailor than I would a well-groomed lawyer who never swears, but instead uses a wide variety of accusatory big words that keep me running to the dictionary to find out just how I was insulted. I might just do away with everything and revert to primal screams and pounding my arms.

[Visage of Glory]

That is where I differ. I think swearing in all forms is bad. Bono used the f-word as an adjective on TV, and the FCC let him off. See what reaction that brought. That proves that there are still people out there who are offended by profane and vulgar language.

I think both of your statements would be crude and foolish sounding. Why not say, "That movie was most entertaining." and "Don't say anything more, you ignoramus. You will only make yourself appear more like an uneducated buffoon." I personally feel the last one is more intelligent and cutting then spouting off incoherent curses.

By the way, if you have to look up the insults, that is a good thing. It will help you increase your vocabulary, and become a wiser person from it. Then you could look up some obscure insults yourself, and increase your learning anymore.

And how is this topic hillarious? I think it is an important issue that needs to be addressed. It is a rampant problem that needs to curbed. I read an article on the internet about how the number of swear words is going down because we use so many of them so commonly. Honestly, I think many people's language are deteriorating grotesquely. Gay is used in some many different contexts, it is eery. Rarely is it actually used in its original meaning.

[lookingin]

That is where I differ. I think swearing in all forms is bad. Bono used the f-word as an adjective on TV, and the FCC let him off. See what reaction that brought. That proves that there are still people out there who are offended by profane and vulgar language.

That's because Bono has no class, you think he even thinks about what he's doing? I seriously doubt it.

I think both of your statements would be crude and foolish sounding. Why not say, "That movie was most entertaining." and "Don't say anything more, you ignoramus. You will only make yourself appear more like an uneducated buffoon." I personally feel the last one is more intelligent and cutting then spouting off incoherent curses.

How is calling anyone an ignoramus or a buffoon any better? I don't know if you are, but if you are a christian who takes Jesus' example, you are supposed to forgive people for their sins, not police them to the point of driving them further into doing wrong.

By the way, if you have to look up the insults, that is a good thing. It will help you increase your vocabulary, and become a wiser person from it. Then you could look up some obscure insults yourself, and increase your learning anymore.

You misunderstood me, If go back and look at what I did say I DON'T ENCOURAGE IT, for example I think kids should be taught that it is rude to swear. On the other hand, I believe people will make wrong choices, you cannot enforce rules onto anyone as if you are their dictator. Wrong choices are a part of life, the best you can do is teach youth to know the difference between the good examples and the bad examples of others.

I agree people should always try to improve their vocabulary, just not for the reason of replacing curse words. Some people who have the most brilliant vocabularies in the world are incidentally the most lacking in basic wisdom. And there is more to a person than intellect, people aren't robots which can be programmed to follow rules you know. Morality doesn't come from dictating the procedure, or functions of this world, or you are not allowing for spirit.

And how is this topic hillarious? I think it is an important issue that needs to be addressed. It is a rampant problem that needs to curbed. I read an article on the internet about how the number of swear words is going down because we use so many of them so commonly. Honestly, I think many people's language are deteriorating grotesquely. Gay is used in some many different contexts, it is eery. Rarely is it actually used in its original meaning.

I know what your sense of outrage about it is like, but again if anything is going to be done about anything, it must be completely voluntary -- best left to the decision of the individual, if this wasn't true there would be no such phrase as 'personal responsibility'.

[Goranhammer]

I'm the same way with looking. I personally try not to swear a bunch in public, but if I happen to do so, I sure won't apologize for it. As I stated in the first post, it's protected speech. I'm perfectly within my rights to say whatever "curse words" I want.

Besides, it's relative. What if I decided to make a proclamation and say that "fuck" is no longer a swear word, but "train" is. That I can say whatever I "training" want, and if you don't like it, you can eat "train" and die. So "train" off.

I'm still swearing, right?

[Visage of Glory]

I understand that people make mistakes. You seem to agree with me that swearing is not a good thing. I don't mind a slip-up here or there, or if someone does not know it is wrong, but how will they learn that people don't appreciate that kind of language if you don't tell them. If a kid curses, their parents punish them. If a grown man curses, rarely will anyone tell him to stop. Even if they do tell him, his response his usually more vulgar language. I understand his right to free speech, but I would prefer if he did not use that kind of language around me.

Yes, I am a Christian, and I believe in forgiveness(otherwise, I would already be codemned). However, I can only forgive people when they feel sorry about doing it. Most people aren't sorry when they swear; they don't think there is anything wrong with it. I want to people to know that their is a problem with it, at least in public. If they want to use it in their homes and private conversations, that is fine. I will not intrude on that right. On the other hand, when they use it in public, some people are upset by it.

Take this for example: Someone is driving in a car, and sees an African-american person, and remarks to his passenger, "I hate black people." However, had he been walking by, and said, in a non-discreet voice, the same thing, don't you think the person would be offended? Absolutely! The person has a right to be offended. I am also hurt when someone swears.

[Dr. Rock]

for one thing god doesnt exist. but thats another arguement.
what do you do when you break a bone? swear.
What are you gonna do right before you die? swear most likely.
evreyone swears. every child molester knows that kids in grade two swear like sailors. Theyre only words. its totally subjective.
North Americans are way to sexually conservative. Kids learn about sex from theyre peers in grade school before the system comes up with the balls.
Swear words are great though, you can use them on your mom, dad when your happy or sad and they add that special emphasis. its the casual use thats wrecking the whole thing for every one.
language for some people has been reduced to "like, fuck, so good" and thats the real shame to me. studies have shown that the newer generations have lower vocabularies than the older ones with each year that goes by. Sometimes I overhear high school students who cant put a sentence together without weakening it five or four times with the word like or so. And that is like, so.....the real fucking shame.

[Visage of Glory]

Only words? Words are one of the most important things that make us human beings. Without words, our communication abilities would be extremely limited. If words don't make any difference, what does? Actions are almost always preceded by words. There may be occasionally uses for strong curses when the situation calls for it, but most people use them improperly.

Also, not everyone swears. The only reason a child swears is because they do not know what it means. They seem a superhero in a movie, or some person at school say them, and pick them up. I do not blame them at all. However, they should be told that those words are not be said. If they are taught that, it is unlikely that they will continue to do it.

I am not trying to infringe on your protected rights, goranhammer, but I would like it if you did not use those words around me, and limit my rights either. I do not really care what you say in private, but please don't use those words directed to me or in conversations with me. That is all I ask.

And, yes, you could say "train" was a swear word, and if you used it as one, it could very well be considered one. That is why I personally feel it is prudent to try and elinate such slang from my vocabulary. Using replacement words for the real curses is not much, if any, better.

[lookingin]

Dr. Rock,

To say "for one thing god doesnt exist" is your personal choice, but on another level it depends on how you see existance overall. I do not think anybody on earth has seen what existance is all about -- especially since the physical human brain and its attention can only handle a small amount of information at a time.

To me this is like saying, "for one thing existance doesn't exist". And in the more scientific sense (that is if it is proof you are looking for), we can readily see that an orderly side exists to the universe as well as the chaotic or random side of universe exists. Both order and chaos exist in our physical reality, but somekind of essence which holds everything together in the system is above both. I don't believe in forcing people what to believe in, but I think people generally make the choices they deserve.

And I think Visage of Glory is correct in his assesment of curse words. Say, if you have kids, and someone continues swearing in a relentless fashion in front of them and you had already asked this person not to swear, then they are being totally disrespectiful -- those kind of people need a genuine ass kicking.

[Dr. Rock]

Im an agnostic, and i should restate that statement. There is no proof one way or the other, and certainly by the order theory or any other POSSIBLE theist arguement this god is poorly defined. Therefore, pragmatically god does not exist.

I personally would respect someones assumption that swearing hurts the kids, just as a matter of avoiding conflict but i havent seen how the casual curse has hurt anyone in my entire life. it does have its purpose. These words exist for a purpose and shouldnt be condemned altogether.
everything in moderation, even moderation.

as far as deserving an ass kicking for swearing in front of someone, violence is a far greater problem than swearing. swearing is more or less benign. Violence should teach your kids a good lesson, dont swear.
fin.

[Stan]

God is the entire universe as well as the space between every molecule that makes up the entire universe. The universe is something palpable and easy to see. However, one must accept that God is the universe.

[Autophage]

I don't think the discussion of God needs to be brought into this, though if it does I see no reason for Him, Her, or It (whatever you believe) to care.

Cursing I don't care in the least about. The 'think of the children' argument bothers me, not because of parental hypocrisy, but because the children will grow up and hear it later no matter what happens now.

[Visage of Glory]

See that is wherein I think your problem lies. You think that they will

hear it later no matter what happens now.

If we control it and limit its usage in public, it is not guaranteed that they will hear it. And if they do hear it, they very well could be offended by it, and ask the person that they heard it from not to use it. If carried out properly, it should be progressive and spread out.

[lookingin]

Im an agnostic, and i should restate that statement. There is no proof one way or the other, and certainly by the order theory or any other POSSIBLE theist arguement this god is poorly defined. Therefore, pragmatically god does not exist.

Like I said -- it all depends on how you look at. But just because "pragmatically god does not exist" -- as is the case for you, doesn't mean the issue is banned from being discussed freely.

as far as deserving an ass kicking for swearing in front of someone, violence is a far greater problem than swearing. swearing is more or less benign. Violence should teach your kids a good lesson, dont swear.

Call it what you will, sometimes the use of force is justified. There needs to be some boundaries in life, and if those boundaries are not respected after potential violators have had sufficient warning, the boundaries must be enforced.

[BenElijah]

The way I see it, it's just another word. You're creating half the problem with children by making it taboo. So lighten up and keep on fucking!

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Everybody curses. I see curse words as a means of expressing the strength of something, hence why I only use it occassionaly to express a strong disliking towards something. So I don't really like those that curse ALL the time, as it's like using the word bagel at the end of every sentence. It begins to lose it's meaning and just becomes annoying to hear..

[Astaroth]

I'll chime in here...

I have a vice. It's a habit. I swear. I don't like that I swear but I do. I see it as a problem.

I can relate to those that have said that it is a good release--for that it is true, but that should not be an excuse to use against our personal social responsibilities. To deny this is just evidence that we belong to a 'me-first' society, and as long as we are not physically or financially hurting someone else, offending them is not important.

I also understand that it is protected speech for the most part and I would not support a city by-law that fines people that swear in public--they exist. But that goes on to suggest that in society, not everything SHOULD be governed through legislation. Unfortunately, the 'me first' society has denigrated life TO a completely legislated society. Just this week, a case went clear to the federal courts--what was the circumstance? Two 16-year-old girls were gossiping, and the rumors it created got someone upset...now they are before a federal judge. As stupid as this is, this is where we have gone, because EVERYONE is looking out only for themselves yet has thrown away ALL vestiges of personal responsibility for their actions.

It is base and animalistic to bark out swears just for the sake of swearing, and more specifically to insult more those who have politely asked you to stop. However, I think you will find that teenagers (as this is where it's most often seen), in seeking individuality, will ENJOY this label and relish it, rather than see it as a problem and seek to change. Calling their swearing as an indicator of poor verbage and intelligence will only make them shout louder.

As adults, therefore, we at least have a level of understanding and social understanding, hopefully, so that there are no longer any hormonal excuses UNLESS you have Turetts. At which point then it is far more becoming of a person to use their wit and vocabulary to enhance the language coming out of their mouths, even in frustration, than to debase it.

Communication skills, next to appearance, is the foremost impacting criteria we use to judge people in first impressions. As an engineer, I know first hand that most people in my field SUCK at written language..we're all numbers and figures and pay little attention to this. But to say it's unimportant is folly. When I receive an email from another colleague in another district whom I've never met, and it's riddled with poor verbage, spelling and grammar, I IMMEDIATELY think that this guy is dumber than a doorknob. This first impression can be bad as I have less respect for his opinions from the getgo, when he could be quite brilliant and in a position to solve my problem quickly.

How you come across to people will enhance your relations with them. If I swore in every other word in these forums, I'd have a harder time keeping what little respect I've earned. However, it has behooved me to not give people any more slack to disrespect me further by having sloppy dialogue and base language--but then again:

I have a vice. It's a habit. I swear. I don't like that I swear but I do. I see it as a problem.

[Lord_Ryan]

They are just words, they can not harm you in anyway (or peoples kid's for that matter). I think its stupid that we have dedicated words for cursing, just shows that people have not imagination. Instead of saying "fuck" next time you curse try to make up something orginal.