[Dagoth Ur]

Why do you hate the workers you wrecker?

[Red_Army]

Why do you live in Oklahoma?

The world is a mysterious place.

[kobe]

Renaming cities is always stupid, it was stupid in the Soviet Union and its stupid when people do it now.

Cecil Rhodes was a cunt, but who wasn't? Let the statue be a testament to his successes and cunty behavior. Limeys need to have some glorious rapin' and pillaging to cry into their beers remembering.

So do you support keeping the names of confederate politicians in the South? Like Robert E Lee Lane or Stonewall Jackson Drive or Jefferson Davis Avenue?

I feel like people want to avoid this out of a weird aversion to sounding like the "leftists" in 1984, but I fail to see how it applies. Cities get renamed all the time in conquests/revolution. Sure we still have New York, but surely we didn't keep every name from the days that British controlled America, or every name from when Mexico controlled California. Ya we kept some, but that's different.

[Political Interest]

Why are people trying to Americanise British history? The two countries had different histories and different stories of race relations. Just because a lunatic in the US decided to go on a killing spree does not now mean that people in England have to start being ashamed of colonial figures.

Just as removing the statue annoys rightists it is good to keep it there because it will annoy leftists.

[kobe]

Ok, so if you use that logic then you're acknowledging that if you're a leftist, it is legitimate to use the logic "it will piss of conservatives". So in other words we're playing the same game and there's no need to be mad at us if we win.

[Red_Army]

I don't care at all. Rename whatever you want, but its a waste of money. Has renaming everything in South Africa done any good for anyone? Do you think renaming shit in the South will?

[Potemkin]

Renaming stuff is simply a way of saying "We're in charge now. Any of you mofos got a problem with that?" It has no other useful purpose.

[kobe]

I was just asking a question. If you really don't care then I suppose you're consistent. I don't see why we shouldn't change the name if people want to change it. It's not something I really care about either way. I just don't see it as some kind of Orwellian type problem either.

Renaming stuff is simply a way of saying "We're in charge now. Any of you mofos got a problem with that?" It has no other useful purpose.

So wouldn't that be a good message to send? Or do you see that as being an empty message until we have reestablished the politburo?

[Potemkin]

So wouldn't that be a good message to send? Or do you see that as being an empty message until we have reestablished the politburo?

Renaming stuff when you're not in charge is pointless at best and even comical at worst. It means that they guys who are really in charge are simply trying to humour you. It is rather like calling a New Labour politician a "socialist", or calling Justin Bieber a "musician". Naming it so doesn't make it so.

[Red_Army]

It just seems to be the only accomplishment most of the time. Its the first thing opportunist demagogues cling to.

[fuser]

Renaming stuff when you're not in charge is pointless at best and even comical at worst. It means that they guys who are really in charge are simply trying to humour you. It is rather like calling a New Labour politician a "socialist", or calling Justin Bieber a "musician". Naming it so doesn't make it so.

You mean to say that I should withdraw my petition to rename our city to "Stalinabad".

[Potemkin]

If your petition exists simply to troll the ruling class, then by all means go for it, fuser. But it is generally customary to rename your cities after a successful revolution rather than before one. Just a heads-up.

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes you should. As an adult living in a developed nation you are choosing to reap the benefits of imperialism. You could emigrate to a former colonial outpost where you wouldn't be benefiting from it. The West is what it is because of imperialism, not in spite of it.

And then I use those benefits in my daily work to spread the benefits to the communities who suffered most from colonialism, which I would be unable to do if I emigrated to another country.

If you want to create social change, you have to be pragmatic.

To take this back on topic, one of the African students interviewed about this statue mentioned that the Rhodes scholarships should go to African students, so that they can reap the benefits of the wealth that was taken from their communities. This seems far more practical than turning your back on the entire system.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Why are people trying to Americanise British history? The two countries had different histories and different stories of race relations. Just because a lunatic in the US decided to go on a killing spree does not now mean that people in England have to start being ashamed of colonial figures.

Just as removing the statue annoys rightists it is good to keep it there because it will annoy leftists.

Why are you trying to Americanise this thread by pretending this has anything to do with the Charleston murders or Confederate flag? From the first post:

The group wants the university to follow the example of the University of Cape Town which pulled down its statue of the white supremacist in April.

and it was up and running in Oxford before the Charleston massacre: http://www.cherwell.org/comment/opinion ... re-and-now

Not everything revolves around what happens in the USA ...

[Truth To Power]

"There's a violence to having to walk past the statue every day on the way to your lectures, there's a violence to having to sit with paintings of former slave holders whilst writing your exams - that's really problematic."

How did a silly cunt who can't tell the difference between violence and discomfort ever get into Oxford?

Oh. Right.

I'm not opposed to liberal-capitalism so long as it is fulfilling its justification for existence, which is to develop productive forces using the surplus wealth that is accumulated by it.

But capitalism never does that in any more than a half-assed way, because it forces producers to subsidize rich, greedy, privileged parasites, especially landowners and banksters.

At the times when I support liberal-capitalism, I am its most vicious and strident supporter because I have no illusions about what it is, nor do I anticipate that it will go on forever.

I'd say you have a lot of illusions about what it is.

Why is a journalist who thinks it's worth putting an unnecessary '[which is]' into a perfectly grammatical sentence, but can't report the name of a college correctly, still employed?

That's easy: he serves the interests of the newspaper's owners.

Yeah and the software billionaires of today are exploiting whom exactly?

All who would otherwise be at liberty to use what would otherwise be in the public domain.

How many diamond mines does Twitter or Facebook have?

They have monopoly IP privileges. Different words, same tune.

Can you specifically list the ways that Africa is being oppressed today?

No, the list is too long. But economic sanctions in retaliation for not enforcing drug patents would be one. Less obviously but far more damagingly, the institutions of private property in natural resources dwarf, in their baleful effects, all the harm done by Africa's pervasive government corruption and incompetence.

I do not for a moment grant that there is some great capitalist conspiracy to oppress Africa. To all appearances Africa is more than capable of fucking itself up all by itself.

That goes for all continents.

[Drlee]

"There's a violence to having to walk past the statue every day on the way to your lectures, there's a violence to having to sit with paintings of former slave holders whilst writing your exams - that's really problematic."

Entitled little bitch. News flash. You will live your entire life and probably the next without the right not to be offended. Get over yourself. Without George Washington and all he put in train, slaveholder though he was, you would not have your black ass sitting in a university chair anywhere.

[Rei Murasame]

But capitalism never does that in any more than a half-assed way, because it forces producers to subsidize rich, greedy, privileged parasites, especially landowners and banksters.

Yet it still fulfils its justification, as I described earlier. All of that is justified by the fact that it continues to develop productive forces along the way.

Once it stops developing productive forces, once it becomes entirely parasitical, then it will no longer have a justification and the forces of opposition can bring it to an end.

I'd say you have a lot of illusions about what it is.

It's just a reading comprehension problem on your end.

[Igor Antunov]

This is ultimately a decision for the University to make.

[CabinetMaker61]

Good riddance to bad rubbish. I don't see why this will piss off people more than taking down a confederate battle flag, in the USA.

There are a whole lot of people pissed off about that.

[Truth To Power]

But capitalism never does that in any more than a half-assed way, because it forces producers to subsidize rich, greedy, privileged parasites, especially landowners and banksters.

Yet it still fulfils its justification, as I described earlier. All of that is justified by the fact that it continues to develop productive forces along the way.

Once it stops developing productive forces, once it becomes entirely parasitical, then it will no longer have a justification and the forces of opposition can bring it to an end.

One could -- and people did -- say the same of slavery.

I'd say you have a lot of illusions about what it is.

It's just a reading comprehension problem on your end.

As I scored 170/170 on the GRE verbal, that is unlikely.