[SpiderMonkey]

Of course the bible condemns homosexuality. Just so you know I'm not being biased, the quran also condemns it.

However, this isn't to me a reason to hate homosexuals. It's a reason to put to bible down, start thinking for yourself and get a life.

[Seán Himmelb(L)au]

Warrior Monk,
Many people say they are Christian and they have a right to- it is free speech. This does not mean that they agree with everything you say as a Christian because the bible, as the 'textbook' of the Christian religion, if you like, is open to interpretation. Some people follow it down to the last word, like you seem to, and some adapt it to modern life and/or what suits them- which, like free speech, is one of their most basic rights. This does not mean that their beliefs are any less valid than yours at all, so do not criticise others for their differing Christian views.

In regards to homosexuality and Christianity, how can you condemn gay people when the bible is so contradictory? Sure, on the one hand it says that lying with another man is an'abomination', but it also says that God forgives everybody. So are you now ignoring what God wants by being homophobic? I think you are.
Also, the book of the bible that 'condemns' homosexuality is Leviticus- the book to instruct the people of Israel- Not anybody else, not one of the largest religions in the world, was it? So do not condemn us under your beliefs, BECAUSE I FOR ONE DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEM.

Please refrain from being so violent in your attacks against gay people- I find them quite offensive, for good reason too, and I'm sure any moderator would agree with me that it is unsuitable for you to be saying such things, perhaps even removing you from the forum. All I know is I find it very uncomfortable reading your posts, and I shouldn't have to.

I would rather be gay and happy for the rest of my short life and burn in 'hell' for all eternity, than living a lie and arriving at the pearly gates in a white limo.

[Maxim Litvinov]

jon - I think I know what you're saying about WM's interpretation of the Bible, but just to clear things up...

I reject that the Bible outlaws homosexuality per se. I believe it condemns lust and casual sexual relations. It does not specifically condemn homosexuality, and nor if it did would this mean that homosexuals would automatically 'burn in hell'.

I would see this as a position that can be and is supported by proper principles of Biblical hermeneutics. It is not that I am 'adapting' the Bible to modern life and/or what 'suits' me, but it is that I am realising that the intention and 'truth' of a text cannot be based upon mere literalism. It is the 'literalist' interpretation of the Bible that I reject, because it does not treat the idea of a text in any sensible manner, and because belief in a literalist interpretation of the complete Bible clearly involves unreconcilable logical and scientific dilemmas.

I just wanted to clarify this, because I don't believe over-simplifying Biblical scholarship is doing either side any favours.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Of course the bible condemns homosexuality. Just so you know I'm not being biased, the quran also condemns it.

Islam is not very tolerant towards homosexuality, but does this come from the Koran? Most muslims would say it does, but the case has been made that neither the Koran nor Mahammad's haddiths condemn it:
http://www.al-fatiha.net/pamphlet.html

I find it hard to imagine God condemns people for committing acts that don't affect other people. I think it is more of a cultural thing.

[SpiderMonkey]

Of course the bible condemns homosexuality. Just so you know I'm not being biased, the quran also condemns it.

Islam is not very tolerant towards homosexuality, but does this come from the Koran? Most muslims would say it does, but the case has been made that neither the Koran nor Mahammad's haddiths condemn it:
http://www.al-fatiha.net/pamphlet.html

I find it hard to imagine God condemns people for committing acts that don't affect other people. I think it is more of a cultural thing.

The examples given in your link sound very much like condemnation to me. It does expressly state that homosexual men should be punished - and modern Islam seems mostly to be very willing to do that.

[Seán Himmelb(L)au]

Stones as words, Warrior Monk, is something that was quoted in the bible. I would have thought you would have known that because of how you take that book literally and seem to like quoting it with every oppurtunity. Which makes me wonder whether you have a mind of your own or not.

Maxim, I didn't explicitly refer to you in my last post. To clear up any confusion and over-clarification I was just demonstrating how the bible can be interpreted (in the way you do) and giving an example of why it might be interpreted, like for modern life.

Is Warrior Monk going to be banned, mods?

[oliver]

Warrior monk

"Thou hypocrite, first cast the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote in thy brother's eye." - New Testament (can't remember where exactly)

I think in your case it's not so much a beam as an entire house that's got in there.

[Warrior Monk]

Is Warrior Monk going to be banned, mods?

Listen to the chorus of fascism and intolerant Bible-haters calling for censorship!

Oh wow, someone actually disagrees with Stalin. Ban him!

[Maxim Litvinov]

It would really help these threads if you could actually leave your personal attacks at the door Warrior Monk. Or, at the very least, learn to distinguish between Stalinism and Fascism.

Jon - as I said, I follow the general tenor of your thoughts. I was just concerned that you were painting those who read the Bible as a document that needed understanding and interpretation as simply people who were 'rewriting it for their own ends' and not, in fact, subjecting it to thoughtful textual analysis.

[Warrior Monk]

The only difference between Stalinism and fascism is that fascists didn't slaughter a hundred million innocent people

[U-235]

Is Warrior Monk going to be banned, mods?

Listen to the chorus of fascism and intolerant Bible-haters calling for censorship!

Oh wow, someone actually disagrees with Stalin. Ban him!

There are plenty of users on this board that disagree with Stalin. Even some of the atheist, muslim, fascist, anti-semitic, intolerant, homosexual bolsheviks disagree with Stalin. But do you know what the difference between you and them is? They can maintain an intelligent debate while every argument with you turns into some battle of degenerate, athiests, left-wing zealots vs. Jesus loving christians.

[Warrior Monk]

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1).

[U-235]

" Each upper pas icorporates four redundant sets of 0.0012U molecular imaging scanners at 90* intervals around the primary pad axis. Error-checking routines permit any one scanner to be ignored if it disagrees with the other three. Faliure of two or more sanners necessitates an automatic abort of the transport process"--Molecular imaging sanners 9.2.2, "Star Trek: the Next Generation technical manual"

[Seán Himmelb(L)au]

I can't believe you, Warrior Monk.

1- You come in here and start an argument mouthing off against homosexuality.

2- When we complain about this homophobia you call us Nazis, when the majority of us our communists.

3- You try and prove yourself by giving some crock of shit about communism being right wing, when ask anybody in the world and they will correct you, it's left wing.

4- The diagram you waved in front of us clearly shows it is about economic control, not politics which we are are talking about. Therefore it does not show any proof of communist politics belonging to the left wing. On this diagram, the reason communism is put as extreme left wing is to show how severely wealth is controlled in a communist society, and why? To make sure this wealth is shared equally between everyone.

5- When I ask whether it is fair for me to be beaten up because I'm gay, you answer no, but say I should be severely rebuked. I did not choose to be gay, so you are launching attacks against me when it is not my fault. This is comparable to blaming somebody because they have brown hair instead of blond.

6- You say that we are trying to censor you by asking you to be banned from the forum- THE ONLY REASON WE WANT YOU BANNED IS BECAUSE YOUR BELIEFS ARE INNAPROPRIATE- HOMOPHOBIC AND RACIST. I would like my fellow forum members to indicate that they feel this way to prove we are not trying to censor you for our own gains but merely have the well being of the whole forum to consider.

7- The people who beat me up were taught at Christian schools by peple like you who believe homosexuality is wrong. This ingrains it into their heads that I am wrong in being gay. It is people like you who let these people take it one step further and assault me.

8- And this is the one that gets me most- When I describe these homophobes as not being Christian, so not having the same so-called motivation as you do. You say offhand "they're probably Muslims."! That's not hatemongering, that's downright racist to presume Muslims are homophobes. And all the while you're calling us racists for being communists when communism's aim is to make everybody equal, not by quashing their ability like in that twatty little story of yours but by making sure everybody is equal. Equal enough to show their skills and individuality, and to be different, and praised for their skills, not just as the workers who get paid little and do all the work while the capitalists are reaping all the benefits!