[Lohr]

Um, you realize that the eggs you have in your refrigerator are not fertilized?

um...oh I stand corrected. I don't know a whole lot about eggs. my bad. I didn't even know that chickens could lay eggs that were NOT fertilized. I've never been a real biology wizz as you can tell.

I think that is where the problem is. Once the egg is fertlized and it starts growing, that is when I think it starts to have life.

starts to maybe, but it isn't really a life. It is incapable of sustaining its own life. It needs to be fed through a placenta. It gestates inside of another being to grow.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

"Needs to"?

Scientifically speaking, we still have legal abortions at the stage where the child could survive outside the womb. The mortality rate would be high, but it wouldn't be 100%

When does it become "A life or death matter"?

[Lohr]

after the fetus emerges from the womb and takes its first breathe of oxygen.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Which doesn't have to happen naturally. So basically as long as you decide to keep something in an environment of your controlling, you can do with it whatever you want?

Good, I can kill all sorts of people now. Including the poor.

[Lohr]

Which doesn't have to happen naturally. So basically as long as you decide to keep something in an environment of your controlling, you can do with it whatever you want?

Good, I can kill all sorts of people now. Including the poor.

how are the poor in an environment of your controlling? and yes, you can do whatever you want with something in an environment of your controlling, provided that it is not a living person... and I don't consider a fetus to be a living person. A fetus is a seed, sperm/egg batter,... it is not a living human person.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

It has a body and a functioning brain within a few weeks. Well before it becomes illegal to kill it. It can move, and studies have shown it can recognise and react to sound in the timeframe we are talking about too.

I repeat, why is magically not a human at this point?

[Antihero]

I repeat, why is magically not a human at this point?

It doesn't has any thoughts or personality.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

If it responds to stimulation, it has some form of thought process. There's been signs of repeated behavior to certain types of music [more action, less action, sleeping. Oh yeah, they sleep in the womb. Explain that.]. Some are more active in the womb than others.

How much detail are you waiting for? Them to jump out and scream "Please don't abort me!"?

[Lohr]

How much detail are you waiting for? Them to jump out and scream "Please don't abort me!"?

exactly...

[Comrade Ogilvy]

In that case you aren't human and I'm declaring you my personal slave. You will work when I tell you for as long as I tell you. The reason is your last post wasn't a complete sentence.

Obviously you aren't a developed person, so you have no rights at all.

[Lohr]

It has a body and a functioning brain within a few weeks.

so do rats, and yet you don't feel guilty shooting them do you?

It can move,

so can insects....

and studies have shown it can recognise and react to sound in the timeframe we are talking about too.

my dad has a telephone that reacts to sound...when you speak to it, it dials a number....that's not saying much.

I repeat, why is magically not a human at this point?

um....I don't know...I've never met him. lol

[Comrade Ogilvy]

so do rats, and yet you don't feel guilty shooting them do you?

Actually cried when I had to throw a rat out in a glue trap, and was happy when I got another a few weeks later. Pissed at my neighbors, but there's something about seeing something tiny being abused that makes me feel like shit.

It can move,


so can insects....

In their sacs?

Most certainly not.

my dad has a telephone that reacts to sound...when you speak to it, it dials a number....that's not saying much.

Your dads telephone developed a personal like and dislike for certain types of music?

Wow, that's a great phone.

You basically have left logic at the side of the road now haven't you?

Just say "I want women to have the right to kill unborn babies" and leave it at that. Don't start trying to get into a scientific discussion of why they aren't human, because they manifestly ARE human.

[Todd D.]

so do rats, and yet you don't feel guilty shooting them do you?

Not a human being, irrelevant to discussion. Regardless, this proves Bobsally's point because you are trying to argue that they are not alive, and to prove it you show that they are similar to rats, a living animal. Very smooth

so can insects (move)....

Not even a mammal, completely irrelevant. Also, see above comment.

my dad has a telephone that reacts to sound...when you speak to it, it dials a number....that's not saying much.

Not a learned reaction, but rather produced in their coding. Completely different. Learned actions require the use of a developed brain, a fully alive brain.


Your own points pretty much prove yourself wrong.

[Lohr]

so do rats, and yet you don't feel guilty shooting them do you?

Not a human being, irrelevant to discussion. Regardless, this proves Bobsally's point because you are trying to argue that they are not alive, and to prove it you show that they are similar to rats, a living animal. Very smooth

neither is an embryo!!! so why do you insist that an abortion is murder when there is no possible way that an embryo can be considered a human life...it's merely a sack of cells clumped together...It in no way resembles a human life.

so can insects (move)....

Not even a mammal, completely irrelevant. Also, see above comment.

niether is a clump of cells...so how exactly is that analogy irrelevant?

my dad has a telephone that reacts to sound...when you speak to it, it dials a number....that's not saying much.

Not a learned reaction, but rather produced in their coding. Completely different. Learned actions require the use of a developed brain, a fully alive brain.

reacting to sound in a womb is not a learned reaction it is much the same as the phone...

Your own points pretty much prove yourself wrong.

I apologize but I honestly do not see how they do.

[Todd D.]

[neither is an embryo!!! so why do you insist that an abortion is murder when there is no possible way that an embryo can be considered a human life...it's merely a sack of cells clumped together...It in no way resembles a human life.

Except for the above mentioned arms, legs, face, smile, eyes, awareness, heartbeat, inner organs, and reaction to stimuli. Other than that you are right.

niether is a clump of cells...so how exactly is that analogy irrelevant?

Insects can never age and become a mammal. Humans are always mammals, even in their embryotic stage.

reacting to sound in a womb is not a learned reaction it is much the same as the phone...

Not true. An embryo/fetus learns the vocal pattern, vibrations, and moods of the mother, to which he or she learns responses to such behavior. This is not like a telephone at all.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

You should actual study this subject Lohr before you come in making sweeping statements.

I'm for abortion, as I really don't see a system of taking the children from mothers that won't do more harm than good currently, but I'm not for saying you aren't killing a human being out of convience.

Accept that what you are doing is killing a human life [even if you have to add in potentia to make yourself feel better]. Because that's what you are doing. Killing a living, thinking human. Ok. We do that all the time.

We are generally more honest about it though.

[Lohr]

[neither is an embryo!!! so why do you insist that an abortion is murder when there is no possible way that an embryo can be considered a human life...it's merely a sack of cells clumped together...It in no way resembles a human life.

Except for the above mentioned arms, legs, face, smile, eyes, awareness, heartbeat, inner organs, and reaction to stimuli. Other than that you are right.

you are describing a fully developed, viable fetus...I am describing an embryo, there is a difference. Embryos have no legs, face, smile, eyes, awareness, heartbeats, organs, or reaction to stimuli

niether is a clump of cells...so how exactly is that analogy irrelevant?

Insects can never age and become a mammal. Humans are always mammals, even in their embryotic stage.

An insect, regardless of whether or not it is a mammal, is more of a life than an embryo. An embryo is no more of a mammal than an avocado...it's simply a clump of developing cells.

reacting to sound in a womb is not a learned reaction it is much the same as the phone...

Not true. An embryo/fetus learns the vocal pattern, vibrations, and moods of the mother, to which he or she learns responses to such behavior.

vocal patterns? moods of mother? how exactly would you be able to tell these things from insidea womb? I haven't seen many babies that can learn their mother's mood until several months AFTER birth. If you expect me to believe that an embryo can react to a mother's voice and moods from inside a womb, then you're in for a sad surprise.

[Lohr]

You should actual study this subject Lohr before you come in making sweeping statements.

If I had not studied the subject and felt very passionate about it, then I wouldn't come in and make "sweeping statements." I'm not exactly sure what has been giving you the impression that I haven't, but whatever suits you.

I'm for abortion, as I really don't see a system of taking the children from mothers that won't do more harm than good currently, but I'm not for saying you aren't killing a human being out of convience.

Neither am I. What is convenient about it? If I thought that it was killing a human life, than I would never support it. I simply think that it is absolutely ridiculous to consider an embryo a human life. I don't really see how exactly it would be convenient for me to claim that abortion is not killing....I simply state that it is not killing because it is not. There obviously has to be restiricions to this rule...I obviously wouldn't propose that abortions be permitted in the third trimester or whenever it is that a fetus becomes viable or anything like that. But how anyone can consider an embryo a human life is beyond me.

Accept that what you are doing is killing a human life

I would if I thought that it was killing a life...but to me to say that it is is absolutely ridiculous

[even if you have to add in potentia to make yourself feel better].

I'm sorry, but what exactly are you talking about?

Because that's what you are doing. Killing a living, thinking human.

If that's what you really believe, than I honestly don't see how you can support abortions. I certainly would not if that is what I believed. But if you support what you believe is killing a human life, that's your business. Just don't go sticking your views down my throat and I won't stuff mine down yours. If you believe it is killing, that's fine by me.