[Ixa]

On the contrary, I think we ought to cover up as much of our bodies as possible, at any rate all areas which are contemplated in a sexual manner. Certain areas evoke sexual feelings in the beholder, aye an impulse to penetrate, and must therefore be covered up. Nakedness also promotes sexual degeneracy. Having a permissive attitude towards the naked, for example, permits a man who derives sexual gratification from being naked to do so, i.e. the exhibitionist. Many other sexual crimes (as they are almost universally thought to be) are legitimised if everyone is allowed to go about naked.

Finally, in my opinion, it is utterly repulsive to see anyone naked.
Actually my state (NY) allows topless subbathing

That should be outlawed immediately, for women who enjoy "showing off" their bodies, especially such-like areas, are sexual degenerates of the most odious order, i.e. "sluts".

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Finally, in my opinion, it is utterly repulsive to see anyone naked.
Actually my state (NY) allows topless subbathing

That should be outlawed immediately, for women who enjoy "showing off" their bodies, especially such-like areas, are sexual degenerates of the most odious order, i.e. "sluts".

I think that is your opinion Ixabert, you should not force your opinion on others, and doing so makes it morally right for others to impose their opinions on you. I think people should not be forced to cover themselves up with clothes, I think every person has the right to be naked and show their sexual organs with pride and especially in public, so as to get a sexual partner and have many likely ones to choose from, I think only a capitalist would be against this, because capitalists are usually ugly and that is why they have no regard for the poverty and suffering they cause and especially since capitalists as a class profit a lot from the masses covering themselves, the english exploited every single peoples they colonized by making wearing of cotton clothes mandatory, and thus they made massive profits, covering of the body as mandatory in public also helps the thriving of pornography, prostitution, dating services television programs internet sites, sun-bathing clothing, bra, all clothing industries retailers manufacturers and local shops, movie business, and private schools (uniforms, as they are thought to make discipline, which actually makes the person into the opposite of a fan of adequate covering clothing).

[Ixa]

I think that is your opinion Ixabert, you should not force your opinion on others,

I think it is your opinion that I should not force my opinion on others. You should not force this upon others.

I think people should not be forced to cover themselves up with clothes, I think every person has the right to be naked and show their sexual organs with pride and especially in public, so as to get a sexual partner and have many likely ones to choose from,

That is immoral.

I think only a capitalist would be against this,

I think only sexual degenerates would support this.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I think every society should have the right to be immoral in culture, and it is the masses of that society that should make the change not foreign bibile-mongerers and preachers of their own form of morality with economic imperialist ambitions, as they always have colonial and economic exploitation goals in their minds.

[Soma]

As a child I lived next door to a man who ran a naturist Bed and Breakfast. So there was often naked people around the place. It didn't strike me as being strange at all, it was only when I got older that it freaked me out a bit. We moved when I was 6, but my friends still live there so I visit alot.

The man in question was so strange that the fact that I only ever saw him wearing trousers once (black latex) was the least of my problems with him. He came onto children alot..as in, 5 year olds. He was also a member of the IRA.

Anyway, I don't think that nudism is really appropriate in public, but whatever people want to do on nudist beaches or in their own homes is grand.

[Ixa]

Anyway, I don't think that nudism is really appropriate in public, but whatever people want to do on nudist beaches or in their own homes is grand.

No, it is not grand at all. It makes people mentally deformed.

[Soma]

No more mentally deformed than those who rally against nudism...as far as I can see.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Soma, I like your signature a lot, its very thought-provoking and agreeable.

[Soma]

Do you think so? I wouldn't go that far now... It's from a song by the Smiths. But I do agree with it, yes.

[Boondock Saint]

I think every society should have the right to be immoral in culture

So you support the canabilism going on right now in Africa? Thats right, for those that dont know there is a tribe that is currently hunting the pygmi and eating them.

I think people should not be forced to cover themselves up with clothes, I think every person has the right to be naked and show their sexual organs with pride and especially in public

I think my right not to see naked people and their 'sexual organds] displayed with pride supercedes their right to show them ... like someone else said there are places these types of people can go, they dont need to do it in public.

so as to get a sexual partner and have many likely ones to choose from

If a persons only means to find a sexual partner is by looking at their genitals then I think these people have serious mental issues. Find a partner for sex is hardly something that is difficult in western society, it doesnt need to be made any easier.

I think only a capitalist would be against this, because capitalists are usually ugly

What the hell are you goin on about? Capitalists are usually ugly? Do you have any way of proving this or are you just taking the piss as the Brits would say?

nd that is why they have no regard for the poverty and suffering they cause

I have no other response but

especially since capitalists as a class profit a lot from the masses covering themselves

I would say the masses get a pretty good deal out of it too ... you try to spend the winter here in NY without any clothes on ... if the only way for me to get winter clothing is the capitalists then thank god for the capitalists ...

the english exploited every single peoples they colonized by making wearing of cotton clothes mandatory, and thus they made massive profits,

So?

covering of the body as mandatory in public also helps the thriving of pornography, prostitution

Your the one who wants people flaunting their sex organs ... we will have porno on the streets and why would prostitution go down? It would only go up up up!

dating services television programs internet sites, sun-bathing clothing, bra, all clothing industries retailers manufacturers and local shops, movie business, and private schools

*blink*

You mean movies are made because people wear clothes?!?!??! What the fuck kind of logic are you using?

Dating services? Will people stop dating if we all go naked?

You want to close down all industry based on clothes? Where will these people work then?

Telivision and the internet exist because people wear clothes?

Bras exist to help women ... you ever meet a woman with large breasts? Do you know how much that weight wears on the womans back? No you dont do you ... those bras that you have somethign against take some of the strain off the womans back ... and controls those breasts from flopping around.

[Garibaldi]

Boondock, where in NY you from? 26-28th district, represent.

My view, I think nudity should be legal. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to run around naked during the winter, between the prospect of frostbite in bad areas and shrinkage. During the summer, more people would consider it, but so what? Too many Americans are self consious, not likly for a fat kid to go around naked. Besides, there's a few people that would be equally as aroused by that 300 pound fat chick as you're disgusted.

By the way, Nationali, not everyone has a reason to be "proud". The average penis size is 5 inches, most men propably are under seven. Unerect, you'd have to be well over nine to look big and have a reason to be proud.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

I think every society should have the right to be immoral in culture

So you support the canabilism going on right now in Africa? Thats right, for those that dont know there is a tribe that is currently hunting the pygmi and eating them.

I don't support it, but I don't see anything wrong with it, its none of your business unless you live in that society and are connected to it through blood-bond and not just some foreigner.

I think people should not be forced to cover themselves up with clothes, I think every person has the right to be naked and show their sexual organs with pride and especially in public

I think my right not to see naked people and their 'sexual organds] displayed with pride supercedes their right to show them ... like someone else said there are places these types of people can go, they dont need to do it in public.

Well thats your opinion, and you have the right to live in your particular society where such a system does not exist, but don't try to force your opinions and views on others and think your view on what is right or wrong is universal (not that I am accusing you of forcing, but that attitude of yours is a symptom of those that do).

so as to get a sexual partner and have many likely ones to choose from

If a persons only means to find a sexual partner is by looking at their genitals then I think these people have serious mental issues. Find a partner for sex is hardly something that is difficult in western society, it doesnt need to be made any easier.

Which western society do you live in? It is extremely well-known in the urban-centers of the world that western society has some disfunction in finding sexual partners so they use pornography, televison nudity, nudity movies, prostitution, and other artificial means to express their sexual fustrations in not getting a sexual partner.

I think only a capitalist would be against this, because capitalists are usually ugly

What the hell are you goin on about? Capitalists are usually ugly? Do you have any way of proving this or are you just taking the piss as the Brits would say?

Ofcourse not everyone readily understands everything, just look for yourself, name me one Capitalist that is not ugly (by ugly i meant internally and externally, it starts from the inside then it is refelcted on their physical appearance which is on the "outside"/external).

nd that is why they have no regard for the poverty and suffering they cause

I have no other response but

You took that out of context it seems.

especially since capitalists as a class profit a lot from the masses covering themselves

I would say the masses get a pretty good deal out of it too ... you try to spend the winter here in NY without any clothes on ... if the only way for me to get winter clothing is the capitalists then thank god for the capitalists ...

I suggest you read my few other posts on this "thread", so you don't get confused on my views by just reading one post and get the improper perception/interpretation. I knew someone might think of wearing clothes for cold, ofcourse people wear clothes to clover themselves valuntarilly even in primitive cultures but they get naked when its hot.

the english exploited every single peoples they colonized by making wearing of cotton clothes mandatory, and thus they made massive profits,

So?

They tried to force their view of culture (in regards to importance of clothing on others), and by cotton I didn't mean just the material, my main point was that they sold british style full-covering (winter-clothes) clothing, which is indigenous to cold british climate.

covering of the body as mandatory in public also helps the thriving of pornography, prostitution

Your the one who wants people flaunting their sex organs ... we will have porno on the streets and why would prostitution go down? It would only go up up up!

The value of pornography and prostitution is in that it satisfies an irrational craving for nudity and so much that the person wants to touch and abuse it (prostitution), rather than respecting that person for the beauty of their body and making love to that person rather than to just their breasts and sexual organs and buttocks.

dating services television programs internet sites, sun-bathing clothing, bra, all clothing industries retailers manufacturers and local shops, movie business, and private schools

*blink*

You mean movies are made because people wear clothes?!?!??! What the fuck kind of logic are you using?

No I do not mean that, I mean that they thrive on wearing of clothes in all climates and use this to make profits, if you do not see this then you probable don't watch movies or don't think besides what the movie-producers would expect and want you to only think while watching the movie.

Dating services? Will people stop dating if we all go naked?

I meant dating services thrive as in making profits, not dating itself, which is not for profit necessarily.

You want to close down all industry based on clothes? Where will these people work then?

What kind of logic is THAT? You think any type of business that can provide a lot of jobs should not be closed no matter how bad it is for society and how oppressive it is toward society? These people could work anywhere, there are plenty of places to work, especially farms/farming.

Telivision and the internet exist because people wear clothes?

How did you come to that conclusion and interpretation?

Bras exist to help women ... you ever meet a woman with large breasts? Do you know how much that weight wears on the womans back? No you dont do you ... those bras that you have somethign against take some of the strain off the womans back ... and controls those breasts from flopping around.

I admire your honesty, I have nothing against people wearing clothes out of self-choice, but I am against forcing of a people who live in a society even in the west to clothe themselves or else get punished.

[Boondock Saint]

I don't support it, but I don't see anything wrong with it

You dont?

I wonder ... do you have anythign against the US and its invasion of Iraq and or Afghanistan? Would you accept that 'this is our culture' as my explination for it?

I recall a debate where I said something along the lines of ...

'I really dont blame you if its in your culture to blow yourself up in a market full civilians or to blow up a bus full of school children or to hijack planes and crash them into our buildings but you must understand that it is my culture to respond to these things by launching cruise missiles and blasting you and your people back to the stone age.'

Would you accept that as an explanation for imperialism and invasions?

If cannibalism is ok, particularly the example I gave then it must therefore be ok for any nation to invade any other nation if it is within the invading nations culture to do so ...

its none of your business unless you live in that society and are connected to it through blood-bond and not just some foreigner.

But it is in my culture to make sure that anyone I deal with obeys my culture ... therefore by your own logic imperialism is justified.

Well thats your opinion, and you have the right to live in your particular society where such a system does not exist, but don't try to force your opinions and views on others and think your view on what is right or wrong is universal

Oh I hardly believe my views are universal ... but like I have said twice now, it is within my culture ot force my culture on others so that they might become more civilized. Therefore there is nothing wrong with it.

Which western society do you live in?

New York, USA oh and Garibaldi I live on the island as in Long Island.

It is extremely well-known in the urban-centers of the world that western society has some disfunction in finding sexual partners

Thats news to me! Do you mean specifically obese fatty fat fats? Or dog faced ugly bitches? Or everyone? Or the majority?

so they use pornography, televison nudity, nudity movies, prostitution, and other artificial means to express their sexual fustrations in not getting a sexual partner.

Again I would disagree ...

- Porn - who doesnt enjoy that? Hell I recall when I was getting laid five times a week and I still watched porn. Why? Because I am one horny mofo ... just like I would imagine, most people are.

- Television nudity - see above.

- Prostitution - the oldest profession? This has been around for so long its not even funny ... the Greeks and Romans did it ... ho's have been selling their punanny for longer then people have been reading and writing ... this has nothing to do with sexual frustration ... this has to do with people being horny.

Ofcourse not everyone readily understands everything, just look for yourself, name me one Capitalist that is not ugly (by ugly i meant internally and externally, it starts from the inside then it is refelcted on their physical appearance which is on the "outside"/external).

Who are you to decide who is ugly on the inside and who is not? And just so you know I have dissected humans and we all look nasty on the inside ... guts and blood and fat and whatnot ... just nasty.

But you mean the soul dont you? The character ... the spirit ... and I would say there are tons of em who are attractive ...

They tried to force their view of culture (in regards to importance of clothing on others), and by cotton I didn't mean just the material, my main point was that they sold british style full-covering (winter-clothes) clothing, which is indigenous to cold british climate.

So what?

It was in the British culture to do this therefore it was ok. I mean shit man ... if cannibalism is ok then forcing people to cover their naughty bits is ok also.

The value of pornography and prostitution is in that it satisfies an irrational craving for nudity

Huh?

Ten, no twenty bucks says nudists watch porno too ...

so much that the person wants to touch and abuse it (prostitution), rather than respecting that person for the beauty of their body and making love to that person rather than to just their breasts and sexual organs and buttocks.

Pffft ... you and me baby aint nothin but mammals so lets do it like they do on the discovery channel.

What kind of logic is THAT? You think any type of business that can provide a lot of jobs should not be closed no matter how bad it is for society and how oppressive it is toward society?

I really dont see clothing as all that oppressive ... now fatty fat fat fats walking around and leaving pool of sweat on seats I find oppressive!

These people could work anywhere, there are plenty of places to work, especially farms/farming.

You understanding of the economy is astounding ...

How many people do you think can be employed by farming?

I admire your honesty

Thanks.

I have nothing against people wearing clothes out of self-choice, but I am against forcing of a people who live in a society even in the west to clothe themselves or else get punished.

You want to know why people should wear clothes?

Let me tell you a joke ...

Why do women have legs?

....

..............
.


.....................

To prevent them from leaving slime trails wherever they go.

[Ásatrúar]

My whole 'beef' with the puritanism expressed in by some Americans (and other nationalities, i don't mean to say they are alone) is that the human body is something to be ashamed of. Women can't feed their children in public; if a nipple is accedentally showed, the world turns upside down. The human body is natural. No, people should not walk up and down the streets naked when they could be clothed, but cloths were made as insulation and protection, not to cover up our "shameful nakedness" (one of the worst things to come from the jewish bible).

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Boondock Saint

First of all I want to thank you for your lengthy response to my post, regardless of the mood of your over-all response. Its strange how Todd D, thinks of it as "tearing up" or "wiping the floor" whenever you and others give a lengthy response to a post, lenghty responses are a sign of maturity not of ego trips expeceted to be succeeding. I think this psychotic attitude comes from being a capitalist, as USA is the most capitalist nation on earth and I have observed that is always bourgeoisie that are most paranoid by being responded to lengthily and think they are superior by having someone else listen/read a lengthy response. But thanks to Human nature (human evolution), human society is now evolving to be much more intellectual and less emotional, and intellectualism is a natural ally of socialism, and emotionalism is a natural ally of capitalism and feudalism, though more so of feudalism, however capitalism is the "child" of feudalism.

I don't support it, but I don't see anything wrong with it

You dont?

I wonder ... do you have anythign against the US and its invasion of Iraq and or Afghanistan? Would you accept that 'this is our culture' as my explination for it?

I recall a debate where I said something along the lines of ...

'I really dont blame you if its in your culture to blow yourself up in a market full civilians or to blow up a bus full of school children or to hijack planes and crash them into our buildings but you must understand that it is my culture to respond to these things by launching cruise missiles and blasting you and your people back to the stone age.'

Would you accept that as an explanation for imperialism and invasions?

If cannibalism is ok, particularly the example I gave then it must therefore be ok for any nation to invade any other nation if it is within the invading nations culture to do so ...

Cannibalism is the problem of that society and culture that you mentioned in your previous post, and comparing the tolerance of cannibalism to tolerance of imperialism is absurd, because cannibalism in the context of my previous response to which you aforementioned responded to is isolated to that particular society, imperialism is sophisticated oppression, exploitation, and genocide, and being sophisticated it takes millions of lives of the indigenous peoples to free their nation from imperialism, such as the war in Iraq, proof that it takes millions of lives is in the millions of lives of vietnamese killed by American imperialism and millions of Russian lives killed by German imperialism, and the millions of Japanese lives killed by American imperialism, etc. etc. etc.

its none of your business unless you live in that society and are connected to it through blood-bond and not just some foreigner.

But it is in my culture to make sure that anyone I deal with obeys my culture ... therefore by your own logic imperialism is justified.

No by your logic, read my below response to get my response on this too.

Well thats your opinion, and you have the right to live in your particular society where such a system does not exist, but don't try to force your opinions and views on others and think your view on what is right or wrong is universal

Oh I hardly believe my views are universal ... but like I have said twice now, it is within my culture ot force my culture on others so that they might become more civilized. Therefore there is nothing wrong with it.

It is in natural human behavior to aggressively and mercilessly and ruthlessly harass enslavers, such as imperialists, even if they are colonizing to make the indigenous people "more civilized".

Which western society do you live in?

New York, USA oh and Garibaldi I live on the island as in Long Island.

Now I understand the root of your irrational psychotic-line emotionalism in your responses, such as you thinking it would be "more civilized" to invade a people to make them "more civilized".

It is extremely well-known in the urban-centers of the world that western society has some disfunction in finding sexual partners

Thats news to me! Do you mean specifically obese fatty fat fats? Or dog faced ugly bitches? Or everyone? Or the majority?

"Obese fatty fat-fats" are common and highly "strong" in numbers in western society, especially America. "Dog faced ugly bitches", are very common in western societies because of the massive inter-racial sex. And ofcourse I meant the majority.

so they use pornography, televison nudity, nudity movies, prostitution, and other artificial means to express their sexual fustrations in not getting a sexual partner.

Again I would disagree ...

- Porn - who doesnt enjoy that? Hell I recall when I was getting laid five times a week and I still watched porn. Why? Because I am one horny mofo ... just like I would imagine, most people are.

- Television nudity - see above.

Enjoying is not the matter, the matter is that "they" use the aforementioned to express their sexual fustration in not getting a sexual partner, as in that it is very indulging for them.

- Prostitution - the oldest profession? This has been around for so long its not even funny ... the Greeks and Romans did it ... ho's have been selling their punanny for longer then people have been reading and writing ... this has nothing to do with sexual frustration ... this has to do with people being horny.

See above. And by the way "being horny" is not normal when it is a cultural fetish, which is thus a sexual fustration through indulgence in it rather than using it for reproduction, as is done by the vast majority of the people in the world ("third world").

Ofcourse not everyone readily understands everything, just look for yourself, name me one Capitalist that is not ugly (by ugly i meant internally and externally, it starts from the inside then it is refelcted on their physical appearance which is on the "outside"/external).

Who are you to decide who is ugly on the inside and who is not? And just so you know I have dissected humans and we all look nasty on the inside ... guts and blood and fat and whatnot ... just nasty.

But you mean the soul dont you? The character ... the spirit ... and I would say there are tons of em who are attractive ...

Ugliness is obvious, if you don't notice this, I am sorry but you are heavily afflicted by some psychosis, most likely schizophrenia, in that you can not see reality and rather live in a "world" of delusions and hallucinations, or most likely manic-depression or the scientifically proven to be most common in America: Depression and Obssessive Compulsive Disorder.

They tried to force their view of culture (in regards to importance of clothing on others), and by cotton I didn't mean just the material, my main point was that they sold british style full-covering (winter-clothes) clothing, which is indigenous to cold british climate.

So what?

It was in the British culture to do this therefore it was ok. I mean shit man ... if cannibalism is ok then forcing people to cover their naughty bits is ok also.

Cannibalism is natural in the african society you mentioned, but it would not be normal in a society with such abundance of food (through trade) such as your City of New York. It is however not natural (thus unnatural) to clothe "naughty bits" in a hot climate, it is scientifically proven that humidity toward the "naughty bits" (private part between the legs) which in turn causes high increase in growth of bacteria on the private part which could cause infection.

The value of pornography and prostitution is in that it satisfies an irrational craving for nudity

Huh?

Ten, no twenty bucks says nudists watch porno too ...

Your whole mentality is peculiarly urban-centric.

so much that the person wants to touch and abuse it (prostitution), rather than respecting that person for the beauty of their body and making love to that person rather than to just their breasts and sexual organs and buttocks.

Pffft ... you and me baby aint nothin but mammals so lets do it like they do on the discovery channel.

Another example of your psychotic urban-centric mentality.

What kind of logic is THAT? You think any type of business that can provide a lot of jobs should not be closed no matter how bad it is for society and how oppressive it is toward society?

I really dont see clothing as all that oppressive ... now fatty fat fat fats walking around and leaving pool of sweat on seats I find oppressive!

Again this shows your urban-centric mentality, such as that your mentality is centered on urban life, rather than all encompassing. Like in suburban and especially rural life you never come close to having to sit or be worried of coming into contact with "poor of sweat on seats" from "fatty fat fat fats walking around".

These people could work anywhere, there are plenty of places to work, especially farms/farming.

You understanding of the economy is astounding ...

How many people do you think can be employed by farming?

All humans for eternity and over-population does not exist in farming, unless it is not rural.