[Tezelian_Imperialist]

There's no reason for me to go out there killing ignorant people now unless there was a movement out there sharing my ideas and beliefs because at least then my death, machete or muscles could mean something... Only then I can die in vain and honour, not now. I rather do what I have to do when the time is right.

Instead of slandering me, tell me why you're against exterminating ignorant people? What do they contribute to, if you're going to ask what I've contributed to well I have my own ideas, theories, etc and I don't live like a pod.

The funny and ironic part is you're attacking me because I'm pro mass murder, etc. But you have no idea how many people you've indirectly killed, so how many cans of coke have you bought in your life time produced by people in 3rd world countries? So how many brand clothes have you bought produced by little kids in Taiwan or Thailand working for peanuts?

Did you know 34 thousand children die a day, oh guess what, a fascist had to tell you that, so what has a pro peace individual such as yourself done for those children? Nothing, so please don't talk to me about the rules of war.

[SolarCross]

North Korea doesn't have much arable land all the good agricultural land is in the south. That was as true before the war as it was after.

Cuba has been under pretty brutal blockade since the revolution by guess who? So much for free trade.. Anyone who claims Cuba's relative poverty has absolutely nothing do with the blockade is a fucking 'tard or a liar and probably both.

The USSR did achieve really remarkable economic progress. At the time of the revolution Russia was brutaly feudal, 99% illiteracy, virtually zero industry. Within 50 years they had enough of a science and industry base to be the first nation to put an artificial satellite in space. The US has never in its history advanced as fast as the USSR did in that time period, the US was richer because it had a massive head start. The did make a big mistake they tried to counter US aggression by matching US military spending. They should have recognised that they didn't need to try and achieve military parity with the US especially in the field of nuclear arms. They just needed enough to deter aggression. US industrial base was much larger because of its industrial head start so for the USSR to match US military resource consumption they had to use a higher % of the total production which in the end burdened the civilian economy to point where growth stagnated. The end of the USSR resulted in ever widening wealth disparities such that most modern russians had a higher standard of living in the soviet period than they do now.. There is substantial nostalgia in Russia for the Soviet days.

China didn't get its commie revolution until 1953 or so. Like the USSR communist China has also acheived remarkable economic progress but even better they haven't made the same strategic mistakes the soviets did. Thus far they are not trying to compete with US militarism until the have grown their economic base to the point where they can afford to. Instead they smartly deflected US aggression by offering the US cheap chinese labour which simultaneously bought them peace and access to US industrial technology. Now communist China practically owns the capitalist US!

All these countries hold communism as an aspiration for the future. In practice they are vangaurdist, meaning they believe that in order to achieve communism, a vangaurd elite must utilise the state apparatus over many decades to develop the country and culture to the point where communism is acheivable.

It is premature to write off communism it is a much newer idea than capitalism or feudalism. Experimental prototypes tend to have problems eventually through trial and error and extensive testing the bugs will get worked out.

[Eran]

North Korea doesn't have much arable land all the good agricultural land is in the south. That was as true before the war as it was after.

Perhaps. But Hong Kong has even less.

Note what you are doing. You have looked and found some excuse for one communist regime after another.

But we now have almost a century of experience with communism in dozens of different countries. Without a single exception, all communist regimes failed to satisfy their citizens. All major communist regimes, in fact, had to implement strict emigration controls to stop their citizens from escaping their "remarkable economic progress".

China has succeeded (relatively speaking) only once it relaxed the de-facto communist nature of its economy. Today, it is about as communist as Japan.

[SolarCross]

@eran
Hong Kong is not a fair comparison, because Hong Kong is a trade hub and isn't in an effective state of war so isn't obliged to devote the majority of its resources towards defence. NK has policy of self-sufficiency and independance; they call this policy juche. Korea (as a whole) has a history of being kicked around by foreign empires, China, Japan, Europeans and the US. South Korea opted to be a slave state to the US, they traded independance for non-aggression from the US empire. NK is trying to independant from everyone even China. NK people are mostly highly supportive of this policy it is thrilling for a small country to give the big monster empires the finger and sort of get away with it. This policy though does come at a price. But this policy is not by any sensible definition communist it is really a kind of extreme nationalism even fascism. If NK policy was 100% communist they would have volutarily merged with China or at least federated with China. There are some rumours that the NK leadership are looking to scale down the nationalist policy though it remains to be seen which way that will go.

regarding the US trade seige of little cuba; are you in the catagory of 'tard or liar?

China hasn't abandoned the communist goal, they are using capitalism to defeat capitalism. You will see this for yourself in 10 to 20 years from now when debt ridden US is repossessed by their communist Chinese creditors.

[Eran]

NK people are mostly highly supportive of this policy

How can you possibly know?

regarding the US trade seige of little cuba; are you in the catagory of 'tard or liar?

Neither. I oppose the policy (as I oppose all trade restrictions), and there is no doubt that the Cuban economy is harmed by it. However, I don't think the entire stagnation of the Cuban economy can be explained by the embargo.

China hasn't abandoned the communist goal, they are using capitalism to defeat capitalism. You will see this for yourself in 10 to 20 years from now when debt ridden US is repossessed by their communist Chinese creditors.

We'll see.

[Baff]

North Korea doesn't have much arable land all the good agricultural land is in the south. That was as true before the war as it was after.
Perhaps. But Hong Kong has even less.

Hong Kong has access to many international trade routes.
That is the key to it's success.

NK people are mostly highly supportive of this policy
How can you possibly know?

By the way they all madly goose step and wave their flags and cry on mass when their dear leader has a glum face.


Do you feel Cuba is doing much worse than any of the other banana republics in it's neighbourhood?

And if so what do you think the biggest source of revenue for the islands that out do it economically are?
They are either international trade hubs like the Caymans or they are international tourist destinations.
Two things that the Cubans are heavily embargoed from.

so instead lets compare it to the other banana republics in the area with a limited trade and tourism industry and what do we get, Haiti and the domicinican republic.
Cuba of course vastly outshines them both.

But in truth none of the banana republics are very successful, it's a low bar all round.

[SolarCross]

@eran

NK - I've spoken to people who have been there. I've also seen documentaries made by people who have been there, I suppose as an american your corporate media would censor such documentaries so you would never have seen them. If I can spare the time and money I'd like to go there for a holiday, so maybe one day I can give you personal testimony.

Cuba - your assertion that the cuban economy would stagnate even without a blockade is just self-serving ideological wishful thinking there is no evidence for it. The blockade means they can't export and they can't import, for a tiny island like cuba that's economic death. It is a miracle they are able to function at all. In terms of education and health Cuba ranks very highly in the world, way more than one would expect for a tiny island that has been under a near total economic blockade for the past 50 years. I wonder how well your personal economy would do if you were locked in solitary confinement for 50 years. Would you appreaciate people saying to you that your confinement didn't matter as you would have fallen to pieces anyway?

China - I can't wait.

[Eran]

NK - I have read accounts from NK. They all suggest very miserable living conditions with harsh totalitarian controls. I have no doubt many people do feel pride in their country - that's a very natural feeling and the authorities work hard to instil it.

But let me ask you - if the border between the Koreas was to open, do you seriously doubt that many more people from the North would choose to move South, rather than the other way around?

Cuba - the US embargo is over direct trade with Cuba. It is not a blockade. Cuba can still trade with any other country on Earth. It can sell to Mexico or other Caribbean islands, to South American and to Europe.

[mum]

Instead of slandering me, tell me why you're against exterminating ignorant people? What do they contribute to, if you're going to ask what I've contributed to well I have my own ideas, theories, etc and I don't live like a pod.

Because I, like most people, believe killing other people is wrong. Which is lucky because otherwise there would only be very few strong, machete wielding people on the planet, killing each other.

The funny and ironic part is you're attacking me because I'm pro mass murder, etc. But you have no idea how many people you've indirectly killed, so how many cans of coke have you bought in your life time produced by people in 3rd world countries? So how many brand clothes have you bought produced by little kids in Taiwan or Thailand working for peanuts?

Did you know 34 thousand children die a day, oh guess what, a fascist had to tell you that, so what has a pro peace individual such as yourself done for those children? Nothing, so please don't talk to me about the rules of war.

The correct question is, How many peoples lives have I saved or improved due to my consumption habits ?
By creating the need for cheap labour, my consumption has improved the lives of many in poor countries.

[Baff]

Cuba - your assertion that the cuban economy would stagnate even without a blockade is just self-serving ideological wishful thinking there is no evidence for it. The blockade means they can't export and they can't import, for a tiny island like cuba that's economic death. :

Cuba can and does trade internationally. I smoke the odd cuban when I can afford to.
It is of course unable to do so with it's closest neighbour and the worlds single greatest marketplace. This limits it's ability but does not completely remove it. Equally, NK can still trade with China.

So it is not without trade completely, but rather has a lesser access to trade routes than it could have or indeed other countries often have.
As such we don't expect it to make the same kinds of profit from trading or tourism.
Nerfed, but not out of the game.

[onemalehuman]

There is no reason for anybody, Tez, to go out and kill ignorant people now because ignorance is contagous by faith in spirit and beliefs in science that humanity is larger than life ignoring what real remains while acting as a societal hero securing the rights of every body to deny what real is to save the spirit of language arts directing the political intentions of keeping individual liberty a thing of the past.

You seek immortality by becoming a martyr to an ideologue's ideology you have adopted to play in staged events to create the illusion of this physical planet being different metaphysical worlds.

As for attacking you, that isn't necessary as you will self destruct saving your leader's ideas and he will live on selling them to another fooled again ancestor of ancestry buying the notion lifetimes can become larger than life itself.

Really? In physical compounding total sums of contracting results expanding the details never duplicated before or since conceived as a lifetime in a specific species of being male and female each generation, you are just a character following orders of denial with social justification in numbers thinking one idea means more than one generation of lifetimes.

This moment is forever an adapt or become extinct moment balancing the universe exactly as it exists changing details as always done so far. May want to rethink your character's rights again.

Reality is a "seems like real but isn't complete" to the seams of fabricated vernacular wardrobes woven in mass self deception of societal evolutionary ideas about gods, countries, and communities to the family of humanity creating theaters of psychological warfare to divide heart, body, mind, and soles to join a soul collective ideology. Try being a representative of one's own ancestry passing through this solitary event of natural balancing everything functioning the functions currently present in cellular adaptations in unique locations within this universal present existence existing as everything physically exists.

The matrix of ideologies where Humpty Dumpty being an egghead falls off the walls of vernacular prisims of maybe and might become where character matters and genders don't count. Hell of a utopia there pal.

[Baff]

But let me ask you - if the border between the Koreas was to open, do you seriously doubt that many more people from the North would choose to move South, rather than the other way around?

How did it work out in Germany?
If the investment from the south is coming into the north and also the foodsupply, would people really choose to move away from their families and friends when the economic necessity was gone?

I don't know the answer to this, but I believe that the example of Germany's reunification might provide some clues.

[mum]

Within the first four days, 4.3 million East Germans – a quarter of the country's entire population – poured into West Germany.

The weather must have been better in the west

[redcarpet]

Those that don't give away ALOT in charity, yeah, amoral selfish gits.

[Eran]

If the investment from the south is coming into the north and also the foodsupply, would people really choose to move away from their families and friends when the economic necessity was gone?

Of course if the North was characterised by open borders (at least for investments and goods), it wouldn't be the Socialist economy that it is.

But the fact that people from NK (as well as East Germany at its time) do choose to move away from their families and friends, and even risk their lives, only underscores the degree to which, based on their subjective judgement, life in the capitalist world was vastly preferable to the Worker's Paradise.

[septimine]

My two cents: The difference in ethics probably is more the result of social status buying privledges that would not necessarily be there for a poor man. If a poor guy gets a ticket, he's going to pay the same fine, but it's a larger percentage of his income -- $100 is not much to the Bill Gates types -- it's probably about as important to them as a quarter is to a poor man, while the poor man might have to really cut back on expenses to pay the rent if he gets pulled over for speeding. Same with drugs. Who's more likely to have to pass a drug test, an office worker or a techie, or the guy who stocks shelves at the store? So since being on drugs makes your life much harder if you work the low-wage labor jobs, and makes no difference in higher wage jobs, guess who's more likely to be casual about marijuana smoke. If you get caught stealing and you're rich, you can usually get a decent lawyer to get you down to a misdemeanor -- if you have the funds for a good lawyer and can afford time off to spend the time in court. If not, you go to jail. And jail means a felony conviction that for the most part means "don't bother to apply, we don't hire criminals", so again, the rich person isn't suffering the same.

[Nunt]

It was agriculture which made South Korea rich.

[Baff]

Instead of slandering me, tell me why you're against exterminating ignorant people? What do they contribute to, .

Humanity.

Namely yours.
When you lose it, it's gone.

[Baff]

But the fact that people from NK (as well as East Germany at its time) do choose to move away from their families and friends, and even risk their lives, only underscores the degree to which, based on their subjective judgement, life in the capitalist world was vastly preferable to the Worker's Paradise.

The fact that people move away from every other country in the world too could be interpreted to mean the same about their home countries.
Could and indeed should.


The problem with countries like NK is the propaganda level is so high and the knowledge level so low, that it is more likely to get a wrong idea about the place than a right one.
There are a lot of blanks that only our imaginations are filling in and our minds have been disciplined to make all of our assumptions negative ones.

Seriously, how many North Koreans left North Korea. how many attempted to leave but failed. How many people left or attempted to leave other countries in the same time frame.
We don't know do we?

[Eran]

We do know that South Koreans can freely live their country, and the vast majority don't. North Korea's government (following every single socialist government in history) finds it necessary to restrict emigration. Enough said.