[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

Yeah you two are not transphobic, just making jokes.

Fucking white people, man.

[Cookie Monster]

I'm curious as to why everybody ignored my point that, for example, the Korean language has a dozen or so pronouns for each of the binary sex. They don't seem to have a problem memorizing pronouns.

And there are also languages that don't use gender pronouns. We could also rationalise to go in the other direction. Examples from other languages are not an argument as such to have changes in the English language; in the end such changes should match with the structure of the language in question.

I don't think I am a train anymore, instead I identify as a warship (an Orion super dreadnought battleship). You must refer to me as HMS Decky from now on.

Since ships are female, would that mean that HMS Decky is a transsexual/transgender?

[Decky]

Ships don't have to be female you bigot! They can be whatever they feel like being!

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

And there are also languages that don't use gender pronouns. We could also rationalise to go in the other direction. Examples from other languages are not an argument as such to have changes in the English language; in the end such changes should match with the structure of the language in question.

I think that would be an acceptable solution, the problem is that gender ideologies are as such that we cannot do that. Christianity hugely emphasizes the gender binary, so getting rid of it would not be possible without also delegitimizing Christianity. That's not a task that I find desirable. So how do we work within the context of that? I don't think calling people "it" or "they" is the solution, I also don't think putting laws that make it hate speech to misgender someone is the solution.

I think respecting people's desires for what they would like to be called is the solution, and not using pronouns if you are uncomfortable with using constructed pronouns.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

As long as nobody triggers me by mentioning the Washington Naval Treaty I should be fine. What right did the nations of the world have to decide what displacement a certain class of ship should have anyway? Curvy ships needs love too!

I'm more attracted to curvy ships than ones that are all side and no back.

_________________

But seriously: what identity is "xir" or "ze"? How does one actually identity as an XYZ and feel like their "identity" is "denied" or "devoiced" if someone doesn't call them XYZ? Pronouns for neuter gender and ambiguous gender already exist.

On another note, if it does become commonplace to use such pronouns, I'll probably end up using them. But seeing as they are entirely redundant, it's simply too strange and awkward in English to speak using those words when "it" or "they" and such suffice.

[Cookie Monster]

Ships don't have to be female you bigot! They can be whatever they feel like being!

My pardon, so what does HMS Decky feel like being?

I think that would be an acceptable solution, the problem is that gender ideologies are as such that we cannot do that. Christianity hugely emphasizes the gender binary, so getting rid of it would not be possible without also delegitimizing Christianity. That's not a task that I find desirable. So how do we work within the context of that? I don't think calling people "it" or "they" is the solution, I also don't think putting laws that make it hate speech to misgender someone is the solution.

I think respecting people's desires for what they would like to be called is the solution, and not using pronouns if you are uncomfortable with using constructed pronouns.

The genders in Indo-European languages predate Christianity. As said before the genders in our languages are actually based on the sexes, not on gender identities. Somewhere this has been forgotten; and as a result of the more complex sexual identities that developed in our society, these gender pronouns and adjectives are perceived as an affront to those identities.

[Decky]

My pardon, so what does HMS Decky feel like being?

Xe

[Frollein]

My pardon, so what does HMS Decky feel like being?

Rusty?

[Decky]

Wasn't too rusty at Jutland as I recall.

[Frollein]

You weren't even out of drydock then.

[Cookie Monster]

Rusty?

Xe

Sounds very Chinese.

[Decky]

Not all of us are cis-temporal Frollein. The lead ship of my class was launched in 1910 anyway.

[Frollein]

Now what pronouns do we have to use for trans-temporal ships I don't want to appear unsympathetic/-empathetic, you know? My mom taught me to be always aware of the feelings of people who feel they are ships (or trains).

[Decky]

Xe

I recon you might really be a Zeppelin or something Frollein, if you were in your true skin. Or maybe a Fokker dreidecker but definitely something flying.

[Frollein]

Nah, my argument is that if you have to put your feelings ahead of a tiny portion of the population because everything is about you, you are in fact the special snowflake.

Yeah and that argument is bullshit, as the "special snowflake" phenomenon appeared when the tiny minority suddenly thought they could steer the social consensus according to their special preferences.

A huge percentage of trans people attempt suicide at some point in their life. Doesn't sound like something anybody would identify as if they had a choice.

Yeah, like I said, they need psychiatric help. Obviously nobody thinks that affirming an anorexic in her delusion is the way to go, either. Yet a distorted view of one's gender has somehow been turned into a sociopolitical crusade.

I wonder if any leftie ever stops to consider that it's unethical to use the psychiatric condition of these people to further their own political agenda ...

...naah - they are to busy congratulating themselves for being morally superior and empathetic.

[Frollein]

@○Decky, as you may recall, I sometimes identify as a Panzerkreuzer. Potemkin had a close encounter some time ago... perhaps he'll tell you what it was like, provided he has recovered from the trauma.

[Pants-of-dog]

The only time you meet a worker is when you are beating your servants.

As long as we agree that there are trans working class people.

---------------

Yeah and that argument is bullshit, as the "special snowflake" phenomenon appeared when the tiny minority suddenly thought they could steer the social consensus according to their special preferences.

Yeah, like I said, they need psychiatric help. Obviously nobody thinks that affirming an anorexic in her delusion is the way to go, either. Yet a distorted view of one's gender has somehow been turned into a sociopolitical crusade.

I wonder if any leftie ever stops to consider that it's unethical to use the psychiatric condition of these people to further their own political agenda ...

...naah - they are to busy congratulating themselves for being morally superior and empathetic.

Every minority wants to steer the social consensus according to their special preferences in one specific way: they want everyone else to treat them as equals.

You obviously feel that you need to treat them as delusional losers for some reason. That reason probably has something to do with your political agenda. Whatever. I don't care. You can pat yourself on the back for being morally superior and antipathetic.

Just treat trans people like anyone else when you are out in our diverse and shared communities, and when you are with your community that gets triggered by trans people, you can talk about your feelings all you want.

[mikema63]

I've never met a trans person in real life that so much as mentioned the xe and xir stuff. I'm pretty sure that's mainly an internet meme that 5 people on tumbler took seriously.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

I heard someone say "Latinx" last week (instead of Latino or Latina). They were describing the composition of people in a certain city. Why they didn't just say "Hispanic" I don't know.

[Pants-of-dog]

The trans people I know just use the pronoun for the gender they have arrived at. They are also forgiving of my errors when I use the wrong one.