The thing that makes Trump different - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14741172
I know this sounds silly, but as well as observing Trump politically I've been binge watching his former TV show The Apprentice and I think I've hit upon what makes Trump different and what one of the secrets of his success is.

There is a problem in the west, sometimes called "virtue signaling" but even that I think may only be part of a larger problem. This greater problem might be named "incremental lying." Incremental lying is when someone tells a small white lie, counting on you to be polite and let them save face by not calling them on it. Then they add another small white lie, and another one, then once they think they have you, they try to force you to argue with them from a position that is based upon an aggregation of their misrepresentations.

What I've noticed about Trump is that the second someone misrepresents something or tells a lie of any kind, he calls them on it, usually immediately and reflexively. This means that he often does it mid-sentence. He doesn't allow anyone to build up a false narrative. In doing this he comes across as a total jerk but he also keeps things centered upon the reality of a situation (as he understands it) and not upon whatever aggregate fantasy the person he was talking to may have been trying to build.

There are lots of good reasons for being polite, particularly in traditional societies, but I think the exceptions have been eating the rule for some time now. We are essentially "post-fact" because people get away with building up fake dialogues, bit by bit, until they expect to proceed under the pretenses or conditions of their constructed dialogue. Trump is successful because he doesn't allow this to happen. Notably, he usually remembers to preface his disagreement with a statement that it's his opinion or perception. If done properly, I think Trump's approach is a very appropriate way to handle many things in life and his success can be taken as evidence of that.
#14741450
Hong Wu wrote:I know this sounds silly, but as well as observing Trump politically I've been binge watching his former TV show The Apprentice and I think I've hit upon what makes Trump different and what one of the secrets of his success is.

There is a problem in the west, sometimes called "virtue signaling" but even that I think may only be part of a larger problem. This greater problem might be named "incremental lying." Incremental lying is when someone tells a small white lie, counting on you to be polite and let them save face by not calling them on it. Then they add another small white lie, and another one, then once they think they have you, they try to force you to argue with them from a position that is based upon an aggregation of their misrepresentations.


You've described Trump's road to the White House very well. Kudos!

He fed his traveling band of merry MAGAs one whopper after another, and none of them called him on it, so he fed them more, and still they didn't call him on it. They looked the other way, because he promised he'd Make America Great Again!

Methods of demagogues:

Scapegoating
Fearmongering
Lying
Emotional oratory and personal charisma
Accusing opponents of weakness and disloyalty
Promising the impossible
Violence and physical intimidation
Personal insults and ridicule
Vulgarity and outrageous behavior
Folksy posturing
Gross oversimplification
Attacking the news media
#14741491
Albert wrote:^A good example of virtue signaling right here.

You've learned the phrase, but you've failed to adequately comprehended its meaning. Everyone signals his tribal loyalties - none more so than Trump supporters. Trump is a salesman. That is the entire secret of his success, such as it is. And like any great salesman, he has constructed a narrative ideally suited for his target audience.

You are just like any SJW or BLMer. The 'ideas' he espouses and promises he makes are irrelevant in your eyes. You will not hold him to any promise anyway, because it's not about action. It's about your communal relationship with the Trump nation.
#14741494
Yes this "new right movement" (lack of better word, as much as I hate to use that term) can be tribal as any other. Trump perhaps is a part of it. But I think virtue signaling is different idea to that.

To me it is more when a person signals his group's ideas in with superfluous moral standing. It is basically primitive thinking styled as sophistication.

Example would be that you oppose gay marriage not for good reason. But because you are a bigot, bad person who hates his life and everything, (insert victim hood lecture here, that was learned from uni prof). It is good vs bad mentality. Where intellectual and moral superiority is assumed to be on the "good side".

In the process, human rational element is lost on these people. And society grows more devided cause people are encouraged to virtue signal and hardline unrealistic progressive liberal ideas. Hence ironically you only begin to have more and more people with less capacity for intellect, supporting progressive liberal ideals in the end.

I don't know, it's how I see it.
#14741496
anna wrote:You've described Trump's road to the White House very well. Kudos!

He fed his traveling band of merry MAGAs one whopper after another, and none of them called him on it, so he fed them more, and still they didn't call him on it. They looked the other way, because he promised he'd Make America Great Again!

Methods of demagogues:

Scapegoating
Fearmongering
Lying
Emotional oratory and personal charisma
Accusing opponents of weakness and disloyalty
Promising the impossible
Violence and physical intimidation
Personal insults and ridicule
Vulgarity and outrageous behavior
Folksy posturing
Gross oversimplification
Attacking the news media

You seem to have completely missed the point of my post in trying to boost an anti-Trump narrative. I was not talking about what he does politically but what he appears to do personally. Politically he had pretty much nothing to do with /r/the_donald, or his online "alt-right" supporters which aren't a cohesive group or even the GOP, who spent no money on getting him elected but presumably will next time.
#14741597
Hong Wu wrote:You seem to have completely missed the point of my post in trying to boost an anti-Trump narrative. I was not talking about what he does politically but what he appears to do personally. Politically he had pretty much nothing to do with /r/the_donald, or his online "alt-right" supporters which aren't a cohesive group or even the GOP, who spent no money on getting him elected but presumably will next time.


Oh no, I didn't miss your point. I simply countered with my own.
#14741663
Hong Wu wrote:Well, I guess it's technically a point but not every thread is going to be derailed into how Trump is allegedly a demagogue.


How is the thread derailed when I'm talking about what your OP is talking about? Only I've pointed out that you're doing the very same thing you accuse others of doing.
#14741695
anna wrote:How is the thread derailed when I'm talking about what your OP is talking about? Only I've pointed out that you're doing the very same thing you accuse others of doing.

SJW's are a hate group and will be catalogued as such some day :excited:

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