[fuser]

God Damn Atheists.

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Don't feed the trolls.

But there's hope - Scheherazade liked my post that pointed out the least religious countries are the most socially advanced. She's learning, gradually.

[Rancid]

@Godstud

Lies!!! The demon hordes of Atheist must be defeated!

[quetzalcoatl]

Reality is defined by the formal laws of the universe, not silly 'emperical' evidence which is decades behind the former, which is why philosophers such as Aristotle logically deduced everything from the existence of atoms to the Big Bang long before Darwin, modern physics, etc.

LOL, Aristotle 'deduced' a lot of crap that turned out not to be true. Logic, like empirical observation, ultimately leads you in circles. You completely missed the point with Gödel. Every formal system, including logical and mathematical ones, are incomplete. You cannot reason your way to certainty.

Every human source of knowledge is radically contingent. Of course, this is one reason we have faith. But faith is useless when it becomes bombastic and self-important. Faith, like charity and love, are centered on humility.

[snapdragon]

It depends on the atheist, just as it depends on the theist.

Some atheists are really weird. They even practise atheism at an atheist church, which is a bit of an oxymoron.

They go on and on about it.

Same goes for religious nuts, too.

[Rancid]

Stupid non-normal atheists need to be eradicated.

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

Scheherazade is a woman? That's surprising.

I'm not personally an atheist, but I do question the idea that civilized is a quality to be desired. Civilized people start wars, engage in slavery, judge others without cause, and just generally hide bad behavior behind a veneer of politeness. Now am I promoting the idea of being uncivilized? Not really. But I will point out that there's not much of a difference between the "savages" and the "civilized", just that the latter pretends that they're above it all while engaging in some of the most damaging behavior. Religion is often used as a shield for horrible treatment of others.

Civilized is not a desirable behavior, high morals is what should be the goal. And that does not require any god to practice.

[Pants-of-dog]

Scheherazade is a woman? That's surprising.
...

The poster has named themselves after a woman famous from Arabian nights.

This is why I am hoping there will only be a 1001 threads like this.

[Drlee]

I am pretty sure Scheherazade is not a Christian. Here is why:

1. He/she/it/prefers not to say/prefers to eschew labels--- has taken a name that means "he/she whose kingdom is free". No Christian would do this. No Christian kingdoms are free except in the limited application of free-will. All are dominions of God.

2. A Christian would know that 'all men sin and fall short....". Therefor no Christian would accuse another of being "evil". Or at least not be at all surprised about it especially in oneself.

3. No Christian would ever say, "Not at all, logical evfdence [sic] overrides emperical [sic] evidence, since logic is based on universals which apply to everyone, and never change." A Christian would know that the only "universal" is God and that He is not constrained by the "logical". He has presented us with "evidence" of His presence that defies logic. We are not called to "prove for God" we are called to believe in "things unknowable".

4. Aristotle (as was pointed out) a very bad example.

5. SZ said: "Moral beliefs that fail logical tests are inferior to those which are logically consistent." Really? You mean like "Thou shall not have Gods before me"? We are commanded to "believe". That is the beauty of it all. Jesus said, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." If God had wanted us to follow the evidence He would have left a trail of crumbs to heaven.

6. Christians are not more moral people than others. In fact. Because we make allowances for those who have not heard about God we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

7. Christians are not assholes. Well. actually a great many of them are assholes but good ones try not to be; failing more than we might like.

8. Christians would not try to talk people into being Christian. Something about the jawbone of an ass. I blocked the rest of it out.

Rancid said: Stupid non-normal atheists need to be eradicated.

Mais oui bien sûr. Well. Golly. Sadly....I guess.....omelets - eggs old man.

[XogGyux]

Scheherazade can you provide a source for what you consider a guide for moral behavior please? A webpage, book, list or something. I'm intrigued.
And as for your OP question. No atheist are not less civilized than "normal" members of society.
Proof: Priest rape boys, that is bad (at least thats what I think, maybe you think raping boys is good but until you give me your list of moral things I'll be waiting), therefore religion is bad. That is a logical argument and you already said logic argument > mathematical so discussion is over.

[fuser]

I hate them, "stinking godless children of pokemon" atheists.

[snapdragon]

I don't like weirdos in general. Especially when they come knocking at my door trying to convert me.

[One Degree]

I suppose it could be argued atheism led to humanitarianism for many as an alternative to religion, which led to the quest for universal rights, which has led to a less civilized society.

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

^ That's an extreme whitewashing of history. The struggles of black people in America led also to the ideological shift to human rights, and black community leaders tended to be very religious. Maybe if the civil rights of the United States were not so biased towards white males, people wouldn't have to look to human rights to ameliorate their position.

I know you were trying to be funny, but still. Many of the founders that you so worship also believed that rights do not come from the government. They just also believed certain races of men (which do not exist) need to be enslaved.

[Truth To Power]

Personal bias aside, the more I observe, the more I become convinced that atheism as a whole appeals more to uncouth and antisocial personalities than to higher society.

Oh, you mean uncouth and antisocial personalities like Stephen Fry, Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Neil deGrasse Tyson...?

Just in comparison, take this popular atheist radio show by a guy who's worked with a mildly-famous media personality Penn Jillette no less.

And....?

PC has already posted the empirically confirmed proof: atheists are MORE civilized than the religious.

While of course religion has brought us high art, science and culture, such as the works of Michelango and

The church DESTROYED many of the works of Michelangelo and other great artists who did not kneel to its barbarism.

Newtonian physics,

While Newton was indeed religious, he was also notoriously uncouth and antisocial.

the headlines for the episodes of this podcast include such classy topics as "fuck the Pope", "buttplugs", "porn", and "were humans conceived from rape". Sounds like he's likely been inspired too much by Marquis de Sade if you ask me.

Your discomfort with fact is not a problem with atheism.

Why is it atheists would listen to deviants who are so socially maladjusted that they'd likely not even qualify for a career as a McDonald's cashier, rather than to men of enlightenment and spirituality, such as the Founding Fathers? The company they keep says a lot about them.

It does indeed. As does the company the religious keep.

No wonder that studies find that atheists are less trusted than rapists, atheists have only their own degenerate ilk to blame for that. Hah hah.

But who is it that trusts atheists less than rapists...? Why, it's the rapists themselves!

[One Degree]

Many of the founders that you so worship also believed that rights do not come from the government.

I don't know how you could have possibly gotten this from any of my post since I believe no such thing.

[Drlee]

OK Atheists. The flashlight is on you. This bullshit about ancient history is not helpful and is not relevant to the debate at all. On either side. The ancient Egyptians used to bury people in the sand as punishment. Who cares?

As a religious person I KNOW that "goodness" and "badness" are individual traits. I work at a charity which is a church. Technically anyway. We welcome everyone to help. Atheists. Muslims. Agnostics. Evangelicals. And we welcome people who simply do not know one way or another. These are good people doing good things for others. The church gives them a home to do this. Since we do not do public prayer (as a rule) nobody is challenged in that regard. But as a Christian who has actually read his Bible and studied his tradition, I believe that atheists can get into our heaven. And that pretty much says it all.

[Cocoa Jackson]

Religion apparently brought us science. Had me on the floor in stitches. Thanks op.

The art one is pretty funny too. Apparently painting the same paintings of saints and Jesus over and over again for centuries is art. Imagine what artists could of achieved over all those centuries if they weren't constrained by religion.

[PeterPants]

In my experience, no Atheists are no less civil then theists.

Ive seen many atheists ranting and raving, but ive seen just as many theists doing the same, however ive only seen one or two crazy atheists who were screaming for bloody murder, and ive personally had thousands of theists tell me i deserve to die a horrible painful death, and literally hundreds tell me that they look forward to when the rapture comes and god tells them to hunt me down and torture me to death O.o

so there's that...

but i dont think theists are particularly bad. i have no grudge against them, i despise all religion, but religion does not necessarily make someone bad, nor does a lack of religion.

[DoleAndJefferson]

Yes. I think that Christianity should be the only legal religion. the Bible ensures morals and manners and proper character and dress of every person in the world. It is the one book that should be followed to a tee. lets compare a Christian woman to an Atheist woman.

Christian Woman
[center-img]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8f/a7/a4/8fa7a41c0be1534001853e215298afcf--christian-women-pleated-skirts.jpg[/center-img]

Atheist Woman
[center-img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kWdk-JyGlH8/maxresdefault.jpg[/center-img]


Now which one appears more civilized ?