[MistyTiger]

The Arkansas Act doesn’t even recognise women as adults. It treats them as minors under the care of their husbands. This is not about ‘saving babies’ or ‘protecting society’. This is a state level pussy-grab and it’s about affirming the inferiority of women

The heart of all moral and legal arguments about abortion is this: who owns a woman’s body? Is it the woman herself, or is it someone else? In the state of Arkansas, a new and brutal law has decided it’s the latter.

Arkansas Act 45, which was signed by the state’s governor Asa Hutchinson on Thursday, criminalises dilation and extraction (D&E), which is the surgical method used to perform most second trimester abortions. On its own, effectively banning abortion after 14 weeks would amount to a heinous attack on women, but Act 45 goes further.

It includes a provision for the pregnant woman’s husband, parent or guardian, or healthcare provider to block abortions by D&E – and there’s no exemption for cases of rape and incest. That means that a woman raped by her husband, or a girl raped by her father, has to go through her abuser to end any resulting pregnancy. And that means that Arkansas is siding with male coercion over women’s bodies. It means that women’s consent can be stolen from them twice: first in the act of rape, and again in the denial of abortion.

This is grotesque, and it comes on top of an abortion law that already includes mandatory counselling, a waiting period, 20-week limit and severe restrictions on provision of terminations under the Affordable Care Act. But the particular twist of horror in Act 45 should not obscure the fact that compulsory childbirth is always a violent imposition on women.

The gestation of a child is not an equal partnership between a man and a woman. A man’s basic physical contribution is orgasming, and as far as I’m aware, no man has ever suffered death, pain or even stretch marks as a result of this. For the woman, reproduction means nine months of possibly fatal complications and unavoidable discomfort, all capped with the exhausting and dangerous process of labour.

You can sentimentalise maternity as much as you like, but it’s meaningless kitsch unless you recognise what having a baby actually entails for women. And the Arkansas Act doesn’t even recognise women as adults. It treats them as minors under the care of their husbands. It infantilises adults in order – paradoxically – that men can make full exploitative use of grown female bodies. The Act refers, inanely, to the foetus as an “unborn child”, and then gives women an even lower legal standing.

The absurdity of the spousal consent provision is that it’s not even necessary. If D&E is banned, then it’s banned: it makes little sense to extra-ban it by saying husbands can refuse for their wives to receive a medical procedure that is in any case illegal. But this redundancy exposes the purpose of the law. It’s intended not just to punitively restrict abortions (in a state where 77 per cent of women already live in a county with no abortion clinic), but to reframe the place of women.

Remember, Roe vs. Wade is a ruling that allows for abortion under the auspices of privacy: Act 45 is a law that says a woman has no privacy, and her husband is the ultimate authority on what should happen in the most intimate spaces of her body. Even if the Act ultimately falls (as the ACLU thinks possible), the message is clear.

With Trump in the White House and the possibility of definitively rebalancing the Supreme Court in favour of reactionary interests within this presidency, the architects of the backlash are ready to press their advantage. This is not about “saving babies”. This is not about “protecting society”. This is a state level pussy-grab and it’s about affirming the inferiority of women. Women must resist it, and resist it together.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ark ... 62806.html

[Decky]

Has it ever been any different? The United States has always been closer to a third world country than a first world one. You wouldn't be surprised by this shit in Saudi Arabia why would you be surprised by it in the United States? It is a country founded by Protestant nutters who were kicked out of Europe for having mental backwards views. How else would you expect the US to behave?

[MistyTiger]

Much of the older generation is very conservative. I hope that in 20 or so years, more millennials will be in government to spread their liberal ideals. I am hopeful that there will be more women in government too.

[One Degree]

Much of the older generation is very conservative. I hope that in 20 or so years, more millennials will be in government to spread their liberal ideals. I am hopeful that there will be more women in government too.

Sorry to disillusion you, but liberals are young for a reason. The older generation you are speaking of was the most liberal generation in history. Liberalism (as viewed commonly in the US) is based upon idealism which age and family responsibility has a tendency to reject. I even see signs of Liberalism being rejected at even a younger age now. The protests about Trump did not have the support of college students that you would have seen in the 60's.

[Pants-of-dog]

I find it odd that the US still does not accept the integrity of women's bodies, and still passes laws that allow other people to use women's bodies against their will.

No wonder you guys were so calm about Trump's boasts about sexual assault. According to many in the US, their vaginas do not belong to them, but to the men.

[Ter]

A vagina without a penis is like a bar without booze.
Vaginas by themselves do not contribute to the continuation of the species.
And so on and so forth

[Drlee]

Arkansas is pretty backward. I know it is hard for non Americans to understand but our states are very independent. This allows jackasses in backward places to do some pretty stupid things. This law will, of course, be struck down the instant it is challenged.

A true conservative would keep the government out of the question entirely.

Goldwater: "But abortion is not something the Republican Party should call for the abolition of, by legal means or by any other means."

"There is no way in the world that abortion is going to be abolished. It has been going on ever since man and woman lived together on this earth," he said. “a woman has a right to an abortion”; that this is “a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right”;

That was from our 1964 Republican presidential candidate and the author of "The Conscience of a Conservative". Older people are not necessarily more conservative. If you were of voting age when the US made a woman's right to choose an abortion the law of the land you would be 64 now.

Conversely. Do not believe that young people in the US do not embrace conservative religious principles. A considerable number of them do.

Just remember this. Over half of Americans are pro choice. Way more than half of women.

[MistyTiger]

Arkansas is pretty backward.

No wonder Hilary left and has never wanted to pursue a political career there.

I find it odd that the US still does not accept the integrity of women's bodies, and still passes laws that allow other people to use women's bodies against their will.

No wonder you guys were so calm about Trump's boasts about sexual assault. According to many in the US, their vaginas do not belong to them, but to the men.

I think this is the biggest reason why women can have a lot of hatred about patriarchal societies. Men can be such control freaks. Men like to own stuff and people as if women are just another kind of property.

If I ever get married, I want equal say in the house or more say. It is no wonder that women have to yell and scream a lot. The anger from some of them is scary to men. I am always amused when some men get nervous when my mom turns a bit aggressive and raises her voice.

[Stormsmith]

I'm still wondering why politicians can trump real doctors about which procedures the doctors can use. The nits are effectively practicing medicine without a licence.

Misty

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but I'd say all the men I know are pretty decent

[snapdragon]

There's still more than a few dinosaurs lumbering round the earth, sadly, and it's not always possible to avoid them.

[MistyTiger]

@Stormsmith I find a lot of guys around me to be unimpressive. I am talking about guys in their 20s and early 30s.

I like older men, but since I look so young, I remind them of their daughters. Oh well.

[One Degree]

@Stormsmith I find a lot of guys around me to be unimpressive. I am talking about guys in their 20s and early 30s.

I like older men, but since I look so young, I remind them of their daughters. Oh well.

Older men are often seen as attractive to younger women because they represent security, both emotional and financial. In actuality, they are just young men who appear older and more secure.

[Drlee]

Older men are often seen as attractive to younger women because they represent security, both emotional and financial. In actuality, they are just young men who appear older and more secure.

Now come on friend. We do tend to have a shit load of money, good jobs and a calmer demeanor. We also tend not to have facial tattoos, 120,000 watt car sound systems, a pit-bull, piece of shit car, a retail job at night, an ex girlfriend who is still the roommate, and the habit of drinking mojitos until we take our shirts off and throw up. We are well past seeing our first foreign country, art museum, opera, botanical garden or vagina. We have spent enough time at home plate that we do not take a big lead-off to steal second. We appreciate younger women for their beauty, their vitality, their charming curiosity, and their intellects. We know what old ladies think and respect it. We want to know what young ladies think and begin from a tradition of respect. Mostly we know how lucky we are to have a young woman interested in us and are intent, almost at all cost, to avoid fucking it up.

[One Degree]

Now come on friend. We do tend to have a shit load of money, good jobs and a calmer demeanor. We also tend not to have facial tattoos, 120,000 watt car sound systems, a pit-bull, piece of shit car, a retail job at night, an ex girlfriend who is still the roommate, and the habit of drinking mojitos until we take our shirts off and throw up. We are well past seeing our first foreign country, art museum, opera, botanical garden or vagina. We have spent enough time at home plate that we do not take a big lead-off to steal second. We appreciate younger women for their beauty, their vitality, their charming curiosity, and their intellects. We know what old ladies think and respect it. We want to know what young ladies think and begin from a tradition of respect. Mostly we know how lucky we are to have a young woman interested in us and are intent, almost at all cost, to avoid fucking it up.

Okay, you have some points, but they will have to put up with all the anxiety and jealousy that comes along with our appreciation.

[Pants-of-dog]

Ideally, older men (and younger men) should also support a woman's right to control her own body.

[Drlee]

Ideally, older men (and younger men) should also support a woman's right to control her own body.

Of course. Or failing that at least the wisdom to know we do not have a dog in the fight. And the grace to admit it.

[Stormsmith]

Now come on friend. We do tend to have a shit load of money, good jobs and a calmer demeanor. We also tend not to have facial tattoos, 120,000 watt car sound systems, a pit-bull, piece of shit car, a retail job at night, an ex girlfriend who is still the roommate, and the habit of drinking mojitos until we take our shirts off and throw up. We are well past seeing our first foreign country, art museum, opera, botanical garden or vagina. We have spent enough time at home plate that we do not take a big lead-off to steal second. We appreciate younger women for their beauty, their vitality, their charming curiosity, and their intellects. We know what old ladies think and respect it. We want to know what young ladies think and begin from a tradition of respect. Mostly we know how lucky we are to have a young woman interested in us and are intent, almost at all cost, to avoid fucking it up.

Sadly, there seems to be a lot of retirees or near retirees enjoying the generous benefits of McDonald's cradle - to - the - grave employment programme.

Pants of Dog

It would, indeed, be nice to know men could accept that, but I do have some empathy for their position.

It never once occurred to me to discuss what we'd do if we were faced with a pregnancy that would be problematic. Knowing what I know now, a child with overwhelming healthcare issues could potentially end a relationship, but someone's still on the hook to support it and the parent who becomes the care giver.

[MistyTiger]

Older men are often seen as attractive to younger women because they represent security, both emotional and financial. In actuality, they are just young men who appear older and more secure. :lol:

In some ways older men can seem immature but where it counts, they are more mature. Older men know what they want and go after it. I notice this about approaching women. A young guy will agonize and hesitate about approaching a beautiful woman while an older man will most likely, approach her and chat her up. The worst thing that can happen is that she is married or she tells him that she is not interested.

I had a work friend at one of the places I worked. He is in his early 40s. After he noticed me a few times, he found a reason to talk to me. Years later, we would banter and joke around on the other's expense. He also cared about me like the time that I suspected that another person in the office was being creepy and I felt uneasy. He stayed a little later after work to make sure nothing was wrong. I miss him. He was always very aware of the 15 year age difference, if not, I think we could have dated, at least for awhile.

Now come on friend. We do tend to have a shit load of money, good jobs and a calmer demeanor. We also tend not to have facial tattoos, 120,000 watt car sound systems, a pit-bull, piece of shit car, a retail job at night, an ex girlfriend who is still the roommate, and the habit of drinking mojitos until we take our shirts off and throw up. We are well past seeing our first foreign country, art museum, opera, botanical garden or vagina. We have spent enough time at home plate that we do not take a big lead-off to steal second. We appreciate younger women for their beauty, their vitality, their charming curiosity, and their intellects. We know what old ladies think and respect it. We want to know what young ladies think and begin from a tradition of respect. Mostly we know how lucky we are to have a young woman interested in us and are intent, almost at all cost, to avoid fucking it up.

The amount of money largely depends on the industry you work in and spending habits. I do not know of any young men who are careful with their spending.

I like how older men tend to be more honest, no drama and no "beating around the bush". When they listen, they seem to be really listening.

I like watching the older movies where the men speak clearly (none of that mumbling or tongue stuck on the roof of their mouth jabbering, no funny street slang), the men are actually polite and respectful.

Pants of Dog

It would, indeed, be nice to know men could accept that, but I do have some empathy for their position.

It never once occurred to me to discuss what we'd do if we were faced with a pregnancy that would be problematic. Knowing what I know now, a child with overwhelming healthcare issues could potentially end a relationship, but someone's still on the hook to support it and the parent who becomes the care giver.

It would be nice to know that both parents would still want to go through the "problematic" pregnancy, if there was a good chance that the baby could survive it or that the baby could live a fairly normal life.

I know someone who ended up with a problematic child and the husband was wonderful throughout the developing years, he worked long days and when the wife needed him, he would try to be there for her, granted that he did not have to work. He was working 5 day work weeks and sometimes 14-hour days.

[Tewodros III]

Of course White American women(manly non-immigrant Southerners) were always wanted to be treated in a Christian Sharia lite way. I never understood why White Wing Americans hate Islam, by their retard logic it was made for them. They like fucking animals and being pedos, they hate women equality. They like the idea of slavery, they love causing violence and misery where ever they go. What's not to like? I assume the force welfare tax in Islam, is a deal breaker. We all know Right Wingers hate helping their fellow White poor man, let alone any minority.

[Ter]

Of course White American women(manly non-immigrant Southerners) were always wanted to be treated in a Christian Sharia lite way. I never understood why White Wing Americans hate Islam, by their retard logic it was made for them. They like fucking animals and being pedos, they hate women equality. They like the idea of slavery, they love causing violence and misery where ever they go. What's not to like? I assume the force welfare tax in Islam, is a deal breaker. We all know Right Wingers hate helping their fellow White poor man, let alone any minority.

Tewo old boy, I hope you don't mind, but I have started analysing your posts.
In your latest contribution - see above - I saw:
three "Whites"
one " slavery"
accusation of "whites" committing paedophilia and sex with animals.

Well done old boy, I am looking forward to your further thought-out and intelligent contributions.