Pants-of-dog wrote:As long as we agree that spanking does teach children that violence is a good method of resolving conflict
Why wouldn't I agree to this? Thats why I do it.
The entire premise of spanking is that a controlled form of violence and a limited amount of pain will result from disobedience, deceit, destruction, or disrespect.
Violence is a good means of resolving disputes (I don't see how this is really debatable): War is a case-in-point, but I am also an advocate of teaching your children, early on, how to fight. Fighting saved my life in high school, in fact, I almost became a school shooter myself if it weren't for the intervention of my father teaching me how to defend myself with my fists. I thank God every day for that man. This is a case where allowing masculine and violent conflict resolution can prevent extreme build-ups of non-diffused hatred which, once it spills over, could lead to mass-murder.
Fighting is natural, human, and healthy in my opinion. If my boys want to duke it out when they are teenagers, i'll send them into the backyard and make some simple rules and let them hash it out, and then it will be over. They'll live and when they get older no one will fuck with them.
Some of my best friends in high school were my former bullies, that after I kicked their ass, respected me and brought me into their in-group. Imagine if I never had those fights? I could of shot those guys out of hatred for all the terrible things they had done to me.....I prefer the fighting and hitting.
Pants-of-dog wrote:and that this belief is also part of the rationalisation for shooting one’s classmates.
....and this horseshit, fallacy of the false equivalency.
Not all violence is the same, just as not all wars are the same.Here are examples of morally justifiable violence: 1.
Warfare done to end a genocide or defend your nation from invasion is morally justified violence. 2.
Defending yourself from bullies is morally justified violence.3.
Executing a heinous mass-murdering child-rapist is morally justified violence. 4.
Swatting a dog with a newspaper for shitting on your new carpet is morally justified violence. 5.
Spanking your kid for trying to push his sibling onto a busy highway is morally justified violence. What is not? Here is another list:1.
Shooting innocent people because your bat-shit crazy is NOT
morally justified violence. (the fact that you would equate this to spanking is incredibly ignorant).2.
Beating your kid with a well-chain (like how my grand-dad was abused) for accidentally spilling his sippy cup is NOT
morally justified violence. (note: no one is defending this sort of shit)3.
Punching someone in the face because you don't like his ideas is NOT
morally justified violence (though you would probably be fine with punching "racists" solely in light of their views)4.
Invading a peaceful nation to genocide them for no reason other than your don't like their hair color is NOT
morally justified violence.
Also, as an aside, the Abrahamic faiths (and I believe Confucianism too if I am not mistaken) all require their practitioners to spank their children by divine or moral command, this is also a religious freedom issue, and the majority of mankind affirms these religions which teach such regarding child discipline.
Also, anecdotally, I have NEVER met a kid who was not smacked as a kid that did not turn out to be a spoiled and disrespectful little shit. Ultimately this seems to be because the parents cannot effectively coerce them to behave and as they get older they lack respect. Typical modern parent-child conversation:Dad:
"Johnny, go sit in the corner"Johnny:
"NO!" (this is where it would have ended in my house, "No" is an automatic ass-smack)Dad:
"Johnny, Go sit in the corner!" Johnny:
"No, You can't make me!"Dad:
"Well....um...I will hold you in the corner" (besides being an inconvenient surrender to a fucking child, could also be a form of violence and is definitely a form of coercion and WTF else are you going to do?).
or you don't do anything except threaten not to give them dessert, or take their games or something like that.....but some kids don't give a fuck, then what?
I find parents with high-strung kids are always yelling and not getting shit done, there is a reason for this.
If you take away spanking, or any form of controlled violence, then you invariably remove parental coercion and you fail to teach children the seriousness of criminal activity (which is taught as a microcosm in the home).
To be honest, I hardly have to spank anymore because when I did it with the older ones, it was consistent enough and serious enough that they entered into good behavior that the younger ones follow now out of habit. Spanking must be more often and more serious with the old ones and started very early, then as your family gets older and larger, spanking will only have to be done rarely for the most serious infractions. Hell, my butt-cheeks still pucker when my old man raises his voice and hes in his fucking 60s. The old codger still scares me and would still scare me if I was an MMA champion.
My three oldest are 8, 6, and 4 (just turned 5). They put all the groceries away, completely care for the dog and the chickens (I mean completely), they wash, dry, and put away the dishes, they run the washer and the dryer, set the table, and do all their school work, and they always clean up their messes and they do this without me having to be asked twice. This is in spite of the fact that they are hyper, stubborn, and poor-tempered like their parents. How is this accomplished? Because they know the seriousness of the consequences....but also, because they know that good behavior is as much rewarded as bad behavior is punished.
When my dad was a kid, they respected their teachers and feared them because if you misbehaved you would get paddled, then the principal would paddle you, and then when you got home your parents paddled you. So, you didn't try to piss off your teachers in school just for the fun of it.
Nowadays, kids can stay on their smart-phones in class (at the school I went to, the teachers are not permitted to confiscate the phone) and they can basically tell the teachers to fuck off.
I'm sorry, but since spanking has declined, terrible instances of hazing, bullying, dis-repecting elders and teachers, and yes even school-shootings, have ALL increased, not decreased, so for you to make such a correlation is incredibly irresponsible and its more likely the opposite.
Take a big whiff POD....do you smell that? Its called common-sense and it has worked in parenting for 6,000 years of using physical discipline on children. Lets not reinvent the wheel on this one because some lib-tard hippy-dippy psychologists want to weaponize science against our boys. I see the world their expertise has built.... Fuck them.