Atheism is Evil - Page 36 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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User avatar
By ingliz
#15161727
Verv wrote:Protestant apologetics

Arguing shite isn't shite doesn't get rid of the smell.


:lol:
#15161758
Verv wrote:(1) The "procedures for rape" you describe is actually



ebible


This does not answer my question at all. It simply seems to corroborate the claim that morality depends largely on temporary social conditions.

(2) No, goodness is a divine energy of God, and it exists independent of our moral thoughts on it.

Goodness is co-eternal and part of God.

St. Gregory Palamas describes that -- it's in this thread on a previous page.


So, is this a yes or no to my question?
User avatar
By MrWonderful
#15161767
Unthinking Majority wrote:Religions are ready-made moral systems that, for true believers, are created for people who do not want to think or don't have the capacity to.

I'm more of an Enlightenment kind of guy: Reason will set you free.

I am, therefore I think.



"Enlightenment" - that group of French "intellectuals" who murdered and laid waste during that period. You must be so proud of them. Reason is not your forte, not by a long shot.
Your lie that people of faith "don't have the capacity to" think is one of many arrogant lies prattled by the likes of Richard Dawkins, who is one of your gods. He's a very ignorant and hateful man whose books display his own inability to think and reason. I wrote to his publisher listing his ignorance by chapter and line and Dickie Boy wrote back to me, failing to address a single one of his many idiocies. Same with Carl Sagan and Isaac Asimov.
User avatar
By MrWonderful
#15161791
Rebuke a scorner and he will hate you; rebuke a wise man and he will love you. - Proverbs

Carl Sagan said much the same thing. "Valid criticism does you a favor." - Demon Haunted World

So, Verv, you and I are wasting our time responding to atheists who are scorners of God.

Forsake the foolish and live; and go in the way of understanding.

The Ivy League Colleges all have Christian charters. Nobody has an atheist charter.

Almighty God is named in most state preambles. "In God We Trust" is America's national motto.

We pledge allegiance to "one nation, under God."

Our Declaration of Independence references "Nature's God."

So naturally the angry, hateful, condescending atheists reject our Christian heritage and try to lie it away.

Liberalism is a mental illness, and atheists are overwhelmingly liberals, who characterize conservatives as "Bible thumpers" and "right wing religious extremists," the final word meaning simply Christian. Our Founding Fathers would be amazed at how far the Left has taken America into the depths of hell.
User avatar
By MrWonderful
#15161794
late wrote:Nobody says that.

We can see history with telescopes. That takes us all the way back to the microwave radiation left over from the Big Bang (they're trying to change that to Great Expansion, which IMUO, is a bit silly. Biggest bang there ever was, and they want to conjure up the biggest fart there ever was)

Anyway... we don't know past the Big Bang, but science doesn't allow the use of fantasy. So no bearded guys in the sky. Odds are, it's one Great Fart after another.


The point IS how the universe got here. You pointedly ignored that. You have nothing beyond Multiverse nonsense and farts.

Your ignorance is remarkable. So I remarked on it.


You did nothing of the sort. You simply farted inane gibberish and pretension.

Here's a science test for you, Pretend Genius.

You have a lab refrigerator with a perfectly calibrated thermostat and standard pressure inside.
If you put a flask of pure water inside and lower the temperature from 20 degrees Celsius very, very gradually, at what temperature will the water freeze? Explain whatever answer you give.

Why is the Periodic Table of the Elements misnamed?

Now let's step it up, Pretend Genius.

List the difficulties for protein synthesis inside this hypothetical "tide pool" where the first one-celled life is supposed to have emerged, according to you materialists. Be specific. Be scientific. No drooling.

I honestly don't care what you think. Everybody has their own take on things, and I have largely come to accept that most people are idiots. Even me, I have to work to escape drooling idiocy.


You have not remotely escaped it. Not close.
#15161798
Verv wrote:iii. We're all idiots, bro. You are not going to think yourself out of this one.

Yeah we're all idiots and a-holes. Some are just bigger ones than others. And i'm certainly not the wisest or smartest person to ever live, I don't have all the answers and nobody does, not even a book, which I think is the point. Not having the answers means we're forced to think, and moralize/philosophize. I give credit to Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas because they at least were using their noodles.

The point is that I have a brain, and therefore am not required to be a sheep allowing myself to be controlled by a mass system of moral and social obedience. I reserve the right to reject the morality of the Bible or Koran etc if I think there's nothing wrong with ie: homosexuality. NOBODY is going to tell me how to think or feel. If God himself disagrees with me then i'd rather have a discussion with him about it using the brain and heart he gave me than be dictated by him like a child incapable of independent thought. The religious make God out to be a dictator of morality and I simply reject being told what to think/feel.

My grandfather said that he thought heaven and hell were on earth, and he's not wrong. He also said humans need religion to keep us from turning into animals. That may be true in many cases, like Stalin or Hitler, and there's religion for those people who lack the ability to not become a monster due to nihilism. Religion may not be a bad thing because there's clearly some extremely stupid and selfishly asshole people in this world and without religion maybe they would be even bigger a-holes. For quite a few people if fear of damnation or fear of the law doesn't keep them in line they might become monsters, and some of them still do.

This doesn't mean I'm not spiritual, or that I think earth and the universe is nothing but a cold physics equation, or that there can't be a higher power. It just means I don't exactly know the answers to these questions and can enjoy the beauty of this world without knowing them.

I was religious for the first half of my life and it served a useful and very comforting purpose and I don't want to take that away from anyone. But as of now IMO it is for me like choosing between the red pill vs the blue pill and I can't unsee how the Matrix really operates.

Good luck in your journey.
By late
#15161799
MrWonderful wrote:
The point IS how the universe got here. You pointedly ignored that.



First, I didn't ignore that, because it's the result of illogical thinking.

You assume your conclusion, which is always dubious. What I was saying... was that as far as we can see, the Universe was always here. It just changes shape.

Life starts and stops. Primitive religion assumes everything does. But we know better now. We know the current Universe started with the Great Fart. Occams Razor suggests that is just the latest in a series of farts.
User avatar
By Verv
#15161840
ingliz wrote:Arguing shite isn't shite doesn't get rid of the smell.


:lol:


OK, very good, very good. Penny for your thoughts, dollar for your mind.


Pants-of-dog wrote:
This does not answer my question at all. It simply seems to corroborate the claim that morality depends largely on temporary social conditions.


Oh, forgive me, I thought we were actually talking about that specific event.


So, is this a yes or no to my question?


I think this is a no, but I am not an expert.

Goodness exists, and it is co-eternal with God, a part of His Divine Energy.

There is moral precepts which we must abide by, but there is nothing to indicate that they can necessarily be fully put into some moral system that is timeless and perfect. We live in an imperfect world, after all, and we have to deal with problems with our finite resources. After all, we are forced to practice a great deal of oikonomie in everything that we do.

Good does exist objectively. But, I think that we cannot hope to develop a human morality that is a perfect reflection of that.

I guess the answer would be mostly no or something.

Unthinking Majority wrote:Yeah we're all idiots and a-holes. Some are just bigger ones than others. And i'm certainly not the wisest or smartest person to ever live, I don't have all the answers and nobody does, not even a book, which I think is the point. Not having the answers means we're forced to think, and moralize/philosophize. I give credit to Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas because they at least were using their noodles.

The point is that I have a brain, and therefore am not required to be a sheep allowing myself to be controlled by a mass system of moral and social obedience. I reserve the right to reject the morality of the Bible or Koran etc if I think there's nothing wrong with ie: homosexuality. NOBODY is going to tell me how to think or feel. If God himself disagrees with me then i'd rather have a discussion with him about it using the brain and heart he gave me than be dictated by him like a child incapable of independent thought. The religious make God out to be a dictator of morality and I simply reject being told what to think/feel.

My grandfather said that he thought heaven and hell were on earth, and he's not wrong. He also said humans need religion to keep us from turning into animals. That may be true in many cases, like Stalin or Hitler, and there's religion for those people who lack the ability to not become a monster due to nihilism. Religion may not be a bad thing because there's clearly some extremely stupid and selfishly asshole people in this world and without religion maybe they would be even bigger a-holes. For quite a few people if fear of damnation or fear of the law doesn't keep them in line they might become monsters, and some of them still do.

This doesn't mean I'm not spiritual, or that I think earth and the universe is nothing but a cold physics equation, or that there can't be a higher power. It just means I don't exactly know the answers to these questions and can enjoy the beauty of this world without knowing them.

I was religious for the first half of my life and it served a useful and very comforting purpose and I don't want to take that away from anyone. But as of now IMO it is for me like choosing between the red pill vs the blue pill and I can't unsee how the Matrix really operates.

Good luck in your journey.


Thanks.

Of course, nobody can tell you what to think; but you should think and work hard at solving the problem of the purpose of life and should put much effort into contemplating religious issues.

But I think it is right to tell people that their feelings or thoughts are wrong. You should actively challenge both your feelings and thoughts to grow.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15161841
Verv wrote:But I think it is right to tell people that their feelings or thoughts are wrong. You should actively challenge both your feelings and thoughts to grow.
Then why will you not accept that your feelings and thoughts are absolutely wrong about this? Why are you against challenging yourself?

:D
User avatar
By Verv
#15161843
Godstud wrote:Then why will you not accept that your feelings and thoughts are absolutely wrong about this? Why are you against challenging yourself?

:D


I accept them being challenged.

Just in the last couple years, I've grown a bit concerning my opinions towards moral relativity. I also learned the fullness of the doctrine of theosis when I became an Orthodox Christian and got over some of my hesitancy about it.

I've also begun to think of myself more & more as post-right, and valuing challenging the ideas that I have that are Capitalistic and classist. This is something that has also come about over the last couple years.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15161847
Good for you. I can respect where you come from Verv, but not what you are saying.

Here's the problem, @Verv. You view everything thru the lens of your faith/belief. You are quick to tell other that their feelings or thoughts are "wrong", but can't accept that yours might be, due to that bias of religious faith.

This is not to say that others are trying to get you to doubt your faith, but to only accept that you faith doesn't have all the answers, and that there is morality, irrespective of religion. It doesn't necessarily have to fit within the framework of your faith, to exist.

Humans create morality/values, etc., within their societies so that they may function effectively. This happens regardless of religious persuasion, or lack thereof.

People looking to Hitler(Hitler used Christianity often in his speeches, incidentally) and Stalin as example of Atheist morality, is as absurd as looking to the Inquisition, the Crusades, and Salem Witch Burnings, for Christian morality. :lol:

I am not Christian. I will not steal from you, kill you, lie to you, cheat on my wife, disrespect elders, etc., because these are values that have been taught to me, in my society, as I grew up. Religion often reinforces these, but I am not speaking of any particular religion. Most have the same values inherent within them(eg. Buddhism).

My son isn't religious. He will learn this same values and morality as I have not because of religion, but because it is taught by me, and reinforced by the society that we live in.

Now, you can believe that your god is doing that. That's fine. Just don't argue it as an established fact. It's what you believe, because of your religious faith.



If atheism is evil, then religion is, as well.
#15161856
Verv wrote:Thanks.

Of course, nobody can tell you what to think; but you should think and work hard at solving the problem of the purpose of life and should put much effort into contemplating religious issues.

But I think it is right to tell people that their feelings or thoughts are wrong. You should actively challenge both your feelings and thoughts to grow.

Yes I agree with this. And I try to do all these things. Lately i've actually been researching Buddhism, Taoism and other eastern religions myself and others aren't frequently exposed to in the west, and there's a lot of wisdom to be found, not as religions for me but as bits of philosophy, not unlike some Biblical ideas.

It's pretty amazing that there's been some fundamental truths in eastern religions that have been around for thousands of years that are lacking in western culture, like unhealthy attachments to people and material things and even our mortality causing internal suffering, typically via fear and anger leading to anxiety and depression and addictions etc.

For me the purpose of life is to find your own meaning, which IMO usually centers on finding joy through spreading and experiencing love. The rest of life is simply to acquire resources so that you and your family (most people's key source of love) can experience and spread this love while not dying. Procreation is essentially an act of love with the purpose of creating new life that 2 people can then manifest their love towards. Love is the life sustaining force nobody can live without, and people who are denied it as children grow up to be FUBAR. Maybe this is God. It certainly is like God if you're literally creating new life from nothing.
User avatar
By Rugoz
#15161895
Verv wrote:The spirit cannot be detected by science because it is not a part of observable nature. It also cannot be understood by man because man is tethered to the physical, and his mental faculties are not great enough to understand himself down to the final fiber of his soul. It's not for us to know.

You can say this is a cop-out answer, but whatever.


I never said the spirit can be detected or understood. Only that it is (presumably) immaterial, then you have the interaction problem.
User avatar
By MrWonderful
#15161945
Godstud wrote:Good for you. I can respect where you come from Verv, but not what you are saying.

Here's the problem, @Verv. You view everything thru the lens of your faith/belief. You are quick to tell other that their feelings or thoughts are "wrong", but can't accept that yours might be, due to that bias of religious faith.


You have no bias due to your atheism, though, Mister Hubris, "right"?

[quotee]This is not to say that others are trying to get you to doubt your faith, but to only accept that you (sic) faith doesn't have all the answers, and that there is morality, irrespective of religion. [/quote]

YOUR ATHEISM has all the answers and they were duly expressed by Lenin, Stalin, and Chairman Mao, all of whom murdered millions and eschewed Nature's God. What is the basis of your so-called "morality" is always your supreme intellect and self-proclaimed goodness.

[quot]
Humans create morality/values, etc., within their societies so that they may function effectively. This happens regardless of religious persuasion, or lack thereof.[/quote]

Today's "educators," far left-wing psychopaths, are brainwashing children into homosexuality, changing sex, and fear off everything. This helps society "function effectively" how, exactly?
You're white. Many of your fellow Leftists want all whites dead and out of the way. How "moral" and "effective".

People looking to Hitler(Hitler used Christianity often in his speeches, incidentally) and Stalin as example of Atheist morality, is as absurd as looking to the Inquisition, the Crusades, and Salem Witch Burnings, for Christian morality.


Hitler appealed to the people, with lies. Lies form the basis of all things atheist. Hitler lied that Germans were the supreme race. Atheists now lie that they/you are the supreme race and your morality is a complete fabrication, without foundation.

I am not Christian. I will not steal from you, kill you, lie to you, cheat on my wife, disrespect elders, etc.,


Your atheism is an utter disrespect for America's Founding Fathers, an utter and sinful disrespect for your Creator, Nature's God, named in our Declaration of Independence and amusingly named on every penny of currency you ever spent in America.

My son isn't religious. He will learn this same values and morality as I have not because of religion, but because it is taught by me, and reinforced by the society that we live in.


Maybe he wants to change to female. This is Leftist "science" in action.


Now, you can believe that your god is doing that. That's fine. Just don't argue it as an established fact. It's what you believe, because of your religious faith.



YOU argue that atheism is an established fact, relentlessly, condescendingly, arrogantly, without any proof, hopelessly reliant on mendacity and the Magic Nothing which you pretend created science and nature. You do all this because of your religious faith, atheism. The Supreme Court has adjudicated that atheism is a religion, scream and holler all you wish.
By late
#15161949
MrWonderful wrote:

Your atheism is an utter disrespect for America's Founding Fathers...




Nope, that's just another part of your crazy.

They created a secular government, with a secular legal system. Part of that is freedom of religion, which implies freedom to believe whatever you want.

But there's another layer here. Atheism is part of the Modern world, that's when it evolved, the Modern is simply more secular. It's no coincidence that guys like Nietzsche showed up when the Modern age came into it's own.

So what you are doing is what historians call ahistorical. You are taking values from one era and applying them to another era. That can be problematic, and it is in this case. You are trying to lock thinking into the 1700s.

That is what the sane call a no no.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15161955
@MrWonderful YOUR version of Christianity is hateful spiteful ignorance aimed solely at belittling others who don't share the same detestable and judgmental world view as you. You can't argue anything. You are just like a monkey flinging poo at the zoo, with about as much thought, too. :knife:

Yes, @Pants-of-dog. Poe's Law would fit aptly. He's diminishing his religion by posting such stupid shit.
User avatar
By MrWonderful
#15162222
According to statistics in a book called by Baruch A. Shalev, 100 Years of Nobel Prizes published in 2003: between 1901 and 2000 reveals that 654 Laureates belong to 28 different religions. Most 65.4% have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference.

Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace, 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics, 62% in Medicine, 54% in Economics and 49.5% of all Literature awards. According to U.N. statistics, in the last three centuries, among 300 outstanding scientists in the world, 242 believe in God.

Atheists try lying and spinning your way out of that! Facts, statistics irrefutable but you will try anyway, as always. Evil is like that.

Over 63,000 views of this thread, the largest number by far of any other post on the opening page of Morals and Ethics. Why? Obviously because atheists are hard at work to try and refute the fact that atheism is in fact evil, by the standards and Commandments of the Holy Bible.

You atheists are a very small minority over all of recorded history, and with good reason. You can't even keep you children in throe. According to a Pew Survey, atheists lose their children to other faiths more often than Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus or even Buddhists. Such is your "rationalism" that it fails overwhelmingly, from the get-go.
User avatar
By ingliz
#15162240
Verv wrote:you should think and work hard at solving the problem of the purpose of life

Why must life have a purpose?
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