Australian couple aborted at 28 weeks because fetus had deformed left hand - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15140122
Australian couple aborted at 28 weeks because fetus had deformed left hand

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nation ... 1r83k.html

commentary from LifeSite as well:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/pulse/coup ... -left-hand



A couple decided to abort all because their baby (at 28 weeks gestation) had a deformed left hand.

For those of you who weren't aware, it is 24 weeks that generally marks the point at which the fetus (baby) has a 50% chance of being able to survive outside of the womb (with intensive care, of course. Mainly this just involves an incubator and being hooked up to an oxygen supply).

How do you feel about this?

Should it be legal?

Should abortion be allowed at this gestational age for "defects" and "abnormalities" when that defect is only something like a deformed left hand?
I mean, should women be given a blank check whenever anything is abnormal?
#15140149
Puffer Fish wrote:Mainly this just involves an incubator and being hooked up to an oxygen supply

The survival rate for 24-week-old infants is between 60 and 70 percent.

but,

A 24-week old’s chances of leading a normal life are not good. 40 percent of these survivors will suffer long-term health complications.
#15140179
ingliz wrote:A 24-week old’s chances of leading a normal life are not good. 40 percent of these survivors will suffer long-term health complications.

Just a random question, but... how does having a high chance of detrimental health complications if it comes out of the mother at that point in time have to do with whether the mother should have to keep it in for a few more weeks, to the point where those health complications are substantially lower?

I mean, we are not talking about the choice between forcing the fetus to be prematurely born at that exact moment versus abortion.

Your statement seems to kind of imply that women have the absolute right to force the fetus out immediately, on demand, without any delay, no matter how far along the pregnancy and gestational age of the fetus is.
#15140182
Puffer Fish wrote:Your statement seems to kind of imply that women have the absolute right to force the fetus out immediately, on demand, without any delay, no matter how far along the pregnancy and gestational age of the fetus is.


I am not going to speak for @ingliz, but that is my argument.
#15143546
The idea is symmetry, somewhat ironically.

Those that want to forbid that sort of abortion want their version of symmetry, and of course the symmetry behind abortion is obvious.

They are both wrong.

We try to apply rules and logic to an illogical, and non-logical, world.

Which sucks.

Let's say we deliver that baby. With the deformity, it would prob end up as a ward of the state, speaking of things that suck. Frankly, that's not better.

If you want change, you are going to have to do more than pass a dumbass law.

A lot more.
#15143556
"How I feel" or how any of you "feel" really doesn't matter at all. The only thing it matters is what the person carrying the fetus thinks/wants/feels etc, to a lesser degree but still important (although should NEVER override the mother) is what the other parent thinks/wants/feels as well as immediate family.
Anything else is pure drama.
Nobody should be able to force one person to be or "continue to be" an incubator for fetus, a baby, a child, or even an adult, period, end of story.
I do support, whenever possible encouraging a mother to keep the pregnancy and discouraging abortions whenever this is feasible without being forceful at all and if abortion is imminent, the earlier the better (for safety reasons, emotional reasons, etc). I also support education, programs, etc that aim at educating potential mothers about how to avoid unwanted pregnancies. I don't think anyone (sane) on the planet "likes abortion".
#15143566
XogGyux wrote:"How I feel" or how any of you "feel" really doesn't matter at all. The only thing it matters is what the person carrying the fetus thinks/wants/feels etc, to a lesser degree but still important (although should NEVER override the mother) is what the other parent thinks/wants/feels as well as immediate family.
Anything else is pure drama.
Nobody should be able to force one person to be or "continue to be" an incubator for fetus, a baby, a child, or even an adult, period, end of story.
I do support, whenever possible encouraging a mother to keep the pregnancy and discouraging abortions whenever this is feasible without being forceful at all and if abortion is imminent, the earlier the better (for safety reasons, emotional reasons, etc). I also support education, programs, etc that aim at educating potential mothers about how to avoid unwanted pregnancies. I don't think anyone (sane) on the planet "likes abortion".


I am a libertarian and I could care less if left wingers want to kill their babies. However, my wife will never our babies, she just cannot do it. So in a sense I am pro-choice.

Watch this Gyn doc in congress who has done over 1200 abortions. Abortion is nasty business.
#15143652
Julian658 wrote:I am a libertarian and I could care less if left wingers want to kill their babies. However, my wife will never our babies, she just cannot do it. So in a sense I am pro-choice.

Watch this Gyn doc in congress who has done over 1200 abortions. Abortion is nasty business.


Nobody "wants to kill babies", at least nobody making the reasonable arguments. I am sure, like everything in life, that you could find a couple of psychopaths, but by en large, there is no "epidemic of baby killers".

The pro-life vs pro-choice is not a real dichotomy, you can be both... I am both. I believe in educating people about safe sex practices, about contraception, about family planning, about genetic screening when necesary (family with rare genetic diseases that could lead to the affected fetus), to prenatal care to avoid complications (neural tube defects, cleft palate, major deformities, etc). What I don't believe, is that we can legislate what a woman can/cannot do with her body.
Think about the implications, the same argument could be made to force someone donate bone marrow, or a kidney, or a portion of the liver, or blood, etc.
Then... the same people (not talking about you specifically) are the same people that advocate for loose gun control laws... you know how many people die due to accidents, suicides, negligence and/or "crazy idiot with a machine gun" every day? Where is the fucking "pro-life" there... somehow you claim you (and again, I am using a you in general not necesarily specifically refering to you) can justify overriding bodily rights of a woman, put her health/life at risk with the justification that you want to save lives... but when it comes to some "extra paperwork" to get a gun... all of the fucking sudden this is too much of a burden. This is the country where you have to place a fucking label on tidepods so that people don't eat them, and they still do it and some fucking how you can buy a machine gun relatively easy? :knife:
I have had women that believe this nonsense... I had women with ectopic pregnacies (non viable, dangerous) leave my hospital after ER physician, OBGYN doctor and myself told her that the pregnancy is not viable, that she is likely to get very sick and/or die soon if she does not get the treatment that she needed. I am pro-life... and that means I am pro-life of the mother as well. :knife:
#15144001
RESULTS
The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents' or partners' desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependent


https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psr ... rspectives

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