[Pants-of-dog]

@Unthinking Majority

It is not even a cultural struggle. I am not trying to impose any of my cultural beliefs on anyone, nor are any other immigrants doing so except in isolated cases.

And if a struggle with dire financial consequences is healthy, then we should expect to see far more mental health in developing countries and among working class people in the developed world. Is that the case? If not, then your argument is either wrong or there are other, more important factors.

[Godstud]

Most of the immigrants(legal or otherwise) going to the USA are from Latin America, where Christianity is rampant, and they tend to be more Conservative. They are not bringing significantly different cultural beliefs to the USA.

[Julian658]

There's nothing wrong with anyone receiving welfare or unemployment or any other income supports if they legitimately can't find work or can't work due to medical reasons. I think there is something wrong with allowing people to stay on such benefits indefinitely and not even try to improve themselves, unless of course you have a legit illness/disability that prevents you. Although I did recently see a video of a man with no legs working on a construction site laying bricks with the words "what's your excuse?".

The point is in the struggle. Everyone needs something to get up for in the morning. It's psychologically healthy. A rolling stone gathers no moss.

True, some people need the help. But, this is the first time in world history where there is an epidemic of obesity, particularly among the poor.

A life with no purpose is no life. I suspect a very dystopic world if UBI because the norm.

[Ganeshas Rat]

Of course there is something wrong. Support for unemployed creates the demand for unemployed and other categories of welfare work in that way too. By giving money to someone 'just for that' you also take their motivation to solve the problem of lack of money on their own. Why would I employ if unemployment payment is more than enough for me? Sometimes it goes to a critical situation where the whole social strata is created, the strata of people who receive welfare and vote for anyone who promises to keep or raise welfare, with no politician wishing to make a political suicide by promising to decrease welfare, and welfare becomes more and more benefitial, leading to more people on welfare leading to more political power, a death loop. And sometimes it works, you know and people who receive welfare are able to use it to start their lives again. It's just that doesn't mean it was some harmless welfare and there are ways to do welfare right. It just means the harm from welfare wasn't significant. This time.

[Julian658]

Most of the immigrants(legal or otherwise) going to the USA are from Latin America, where Christianity is rampant, and they tend to be more Conservative. They are not bringing significantly different cultural beliefs to the USA.

Most people have no issues with migration that is done correctly. Most welcome young immigrants that bring needed skills to the host nation. In my neck of the woods Hispanics do over 90% of construction work and many have now become independent contractors that do the job for much less than Anglo contractors. I don't recall when was the last time my wife hired a worker that was not Latin American.

A large number of doctors and engineers are form India, Pakistan, and Iran and they are very Western in nature and quite capitalists. The Indians are the top earners in America. The USA is better for that.

[Julian658]

@Unthinking Majority

It is not even a cultural struggle. I am not trying to impose any of my cultural beliefs on anyone, nor are any other immigrants doing so except in isolated cases.

And if a struggle with dire financial consequences is healthy, then we should expect to see far more mental health in developing countries and among working class people in the developed world. Is that the case? If not, then your argument is either wrong or there are other, more important factors.

I think is poor form to immigrate to a host country and constantly complain. Just sayin'

[Pants-of-dog]

I think is poor form to immigrate to a host country and constantly complain. Just sayin'

So you guys started off claiming immigration was invasion and colonialism, and after I won that debate, you guys are now pretending that complaints by immigrants is the same as the racist violence we face from others.

————————

I see no one has supported any of their criticisms against UBI.

[wat0n]

The idea that there are better options than UBI is fairly uncontroversial. Why is it that some people have trouble understanding opportunity costs?

[Julian658]

So you guys started off claiming immigration was invasion and colonialism, and after I won that debate, you guys are now pretending that complaints by immigrants is the same as the racist violence we face from others.

————————

I see no one has supported any of their criticisms against UBI.

POD
Migration can be done peacefully or forcefully. I hope you agree on this. In both cases the ethnic composition of the host country changes. America was 100% indigenous (native American) and now it is 1.6% indigenous. in 1960 whites were 90% and now they are 60%.

I have no issues with UBI POD. Do you know who will have to work for the UBI of others?

You said: you guys are now pretending that complaints by immigrants is the same as the racist violence we face from others.

Cut back on your straw men POD. I said that immigrating to another nation and making demands on the host nation is poor form. Reeks of phony entitlement.

[Pants-of-dog]

POD
Migration can be done peacefully or forcefully. I hope you agree on this. In both cases the ethnic composition of the host country changes. America was 100% indigenous (native American) and now it is 1.6% indigenous. in 1960 whites were 90% and now they are 60%.

It is more complicated than that. i am glad that I could teach you that not all immigration is invasion or colonialism, and that you learned that demographics can change, as I told you earlier. And as you make more mistakes, I can help point you in the right direction for you to research.

I have no issues with UBI POD. Do you know who will have to work for the UBI of others?

yes, people like me.

Many of the rest of you will be replaced by automation. The labour of these machines will also provide wealth.

You said: you guys are now pretending that complaints by immigrants is the same as the racist violence we face from others.

Cut back on your straw men POD. I said that immigrating to another nation and making demands on the host nation is poor form. Reeks of phony entitlement.

Yes, you guys made both of these arguments or accusations. And I am happy that I could clarify for you what you folks claimed.

And I see that you do not disagree that the imposition of culture and violence (based on race identity politics) comes almost exclusively from the white nationalists like the Capitol rioters.

[Julian658]

It is more complicated than that. i am glad that I could teach you that not all immigration is invasion or colonialism, and that you learned that demographics can change, as I told you earlier. And as you make more mistakes, I can help point you in the right direction for you to research.

Holy cow! I had no idea, thanks.

yes, people like me.

Great! What will happen when the number of people receiving benefits is larger than the number of people working to provide those benefits?

And I see that you do not disagree that the imposition of culture and violence (based on race identity politics) comes almost exclusively from the white nationalists like the Capitol rioters.

How are white Canadians or Americans imposing their culture on others? Be specific; how do they do this? By providing a higher standard of living in a Western Capitalist nation? By demanding they speaking English or French? By asking them to have a work ethic? By telling them not to feel entitled? How do they impose their culture?

[Pants-of-dog]

Holy cow! I had no idea, thanks.

Yes, that is very clear.

Great! What will happen when the number of people receiving benefits is larger than the number of people working to provide those benefits?

You should reread the bit about automation from my previous post.

How are white Canadians or Americans imposing their culture on others? Be specific; how do they do this?

Well, the example I have been using consistently is the rioters at the Capitol, who tried to steal the election.

[Unthinking Majority]

@Unthinking Majority

It is not even a cultural struggle. I am not trying to impose any of my cultural beliefs on anyone, nor are any other immigrants doing so except in isolated cases.

You're on these forums all the time fighting for the rights and interests of racial minorities against white hegemony. We're all warriors in the culture war.

[Julian658]

Yes, that is very clear.



You should reread the bit about automation from my previous post.



Well, the example I have been using consistently is the rioters at the Capitol, who tried to steal the election.

How is acting like a hooligan and criminal trying to impose culture? Had no idea. You taught me something new.

[Skynet]

I do not know which group is more victim of racism blacks or muslims (Racism 2.0)

[Pants-of-dog]

You're on these forums all the time fighting for the rights and interests of racial minorities against white hegemony. We're all warriors in the culture war.

Sure, but that is not an example of me imposing my traditions on you. You are just using war as a metaphor and ignoring the fact that the violence comes from the white nationalists.

———————

How is acting like a hooligan and criminal trying to impose culture? Had no idea. You taught me something new.

No problem!

Try and figure out the answer to your question and I will let you know how you are wrong!

[Drlee]

I like this approach. You must be back on your Aricept.

They told me that shit was Viagra!

[Unthinking Majority]

Sure, but that is not an example of me imposing my traditions on you. You are just using war as a metaphor and ignoring the fact that the violence comes from the white nationalists.

Yes war is being used as a synonym for struggle.

I've never said you're imposing your traditions on anyone else. I've said that POC are fighting for their rights and their space (equal representation) against white hegemony as is their right to do.

I think the white nationalists and racists are almost always the instigators of the violence, though not the only ones committing violence. There have been a few incidents of people on the physically assaulting neo-Nazis and white nationalists, as well as people attacking or killing police officers (ie: Dallas shooting in 2016) in retaliation for police shooting black people.

There has been violence in terms of rioting by white nationalists (ie: Capital riots), and also rioting by both minorities (ie: BLM) and their supporters of all races (Antifa etc) during police protests, Charlottesville etc. Race relations are very bad in the US country right now. And again yes I do believe that white racists are almost always the hateful instigators in this violence and riots.

[Pants-of-dog]

I think the white nationalists and racists are almost always the instigators of the violence, though not the only ones committing violence. There have been a few incidents of people on the physically assaulting neo-Nazis and white nationalists, as well as people attacking or killing police officers (ie: Dallas shooting in 2016) in retaliation for police shooting black people.

And again, this is comparing widespread violence with sporadic and isolated cases of violence.

There has been violence in terms of rioting by white nationalists (ie: Capital riots), and also rioting by both minorities (ie: BLM)

You keep repeating this unjust accusation that BLM rioted. This is untrue.

The fact that some people in black communities rioted at the same time as BLM protests does not mean BLM rioted.

and their supporters of all races (Antifa etc) during police protests,

Yes, protesters protesting police brutality always riot, according to the police.

And, according to the police, this justifies the brutality that always follows.

I personally know several people charged with assaulting a police officer during a protest. One was minding her own business when a cop grabbed her by her hair and pulled her backwards onto the ground. As she was falling, her arm brushed against him. This is why she was charged with assault.

To portray this behaviour as violence or rioting by protesters is to simply believe whatever cops say to defend their brutality.

Charlottesville etc. Race relations are very bad in the US country right now. And again yes I do believe that white racists are almost always the hateful instigators in this violence and riots.

Yes, Charlottesville is another example where the vast majority of the violence was perpetrated by the right, but people like to pretend that both sides were responsible.

[Unthinking Majority]

You keep repeating this unjust accusation that BLM rioted. This is untrue.

The fact that some people in black communities rioted at the same time as BLM protests does not mean BLM rioted.

Are you saying there weren't any BLM protests that turned into riots? Are you saying some members or supporters of BLM didn't riot?

Yes, protesters protesting police brutality always riot, according to the police.

And, according to the police, this justifies the brutality that always follows.

I personally know several people charged with assaulting a police officer during a protest. One was minding her own business when a cop grabbed her by her hair and pulled her backwards onto the ground. As she was falling, her arm brushed against him. This is why she was charged with assault.

To portray this behaviour as violence or rioting by protesters is to simply believe whatever cops say to defend their brutality.

What does this have to do with anything that I said?

I'm saying there's a cultural and racial battle (war) going on. That's it. It's a very simple concept. People rioted because of racial mistreatment, that's a fact, that's my point. I'm not trying to argue one side is right and the other side is wrong at this very moment. I'm trying to say that different groups are in conflict over racial issues. I'm not trying to look at this from an activist perspective right now, i'm trying to look at it from an academic perspective.