[Godstud]

I gained some weight during the pandemic. I wouldn't be called FAT by most people but I have some around the gut that I don't like. I'm dropping weight, now( 5kg in 2 months). Guess how I am doing it?

I am reducing caloric intake, eating whole foods, and avoiding processed foods. I am not losing the weight particularly quickly, because I work out at the same time.

I see fat people in the gym all the time. I encourage them, and help them, when I can, to do exercises what will make weight loss more productive. I hate seeing people wasting time in the gym by FaceBooking of not doing weights that force them to progress. Diet is up to them, however.

I've never seen fat-shaming at a gym.... ANY gym. Gym goers are normally very positive and helpful towards people starting out in the gym. Self-improvement is the shared goal, after all.

[MistyTiger]

@Godstud Good for you for losing the weight and toning up! People can put on weight when their lifestyle changes in any way. I have even gained a little from eating ice cream over the summer (OMG but ice cream mmmm). I know I can lose the weight eventually.

I have never seen people being rude about body image at a gym. People do their routine and then hurry off to go about their day. Personal fitness trainers are happy to help and some gyms have these trainers. They encourage you to tone up and learn how to exercise better.

[Agent Steel]

@Godstud The key claim that you and others have made which is false and disparaging is the idea that it is a person's own fault that they are obese, or that people choose to be fat. So long as you continue to make this ignorant claim I will continue to speak out against it. It is a harmful and unkind thing to say.

It's just as ignorant as claiming that depression or some form mental illness is a choice. It is completely ignorant.

I am not sure why AgentSteel wants to talk about fat shaming and fat people when he is not fat.

For the same reason I advocate for student debt forgiveness even though I myself never borrowed any money for tuition. I understand that other people are less fortunate than me.

Godstud's mindset is the same as the people on the right who say "I paid off my student loan, why can't you?". It's not based in rationality, it's based on vengeance and personal spite. Godstud needs to feel vindicated for the fact that he overcome certain struggles, and if other people get help, he feels it is a slap in the face to him.

[Godstud]

You want to absolve anyone who is fat, of accountability for their actions. Obesity doesn't happen in one day. It takes a lot of poor choices over a long time. People often make poor decisions and regret them later. That does not absolve people of responsibility for making those poor choices.

Who puts the food in your mouth, @Agent Steel? Are you being force-fed?

I can bet you good money that if I controlled an obese person's diet, that I could help them lose weight, in a healthy way. That's because diet something that you can control. If you don't have someone else controlling your diet, then that means that it is on YOU to do so.

Good whole foods are no more expensive, or less expensive, that processed foods. These food are available to everyone, and much healthier.

@Agent Steel You make the claim that the exception is the rule. This is a flawed argument. It's called Ad-hoc Guesting. When we are talking about weight loss, in general, we are not discussing the exception where ED and mental illness are factors. Nice try, but disingenuous.

Unkind. Harmful. You don't know what either of those words mean. Allowing people to remain unhealthy, and lying to them about the reasons for it, is unkind and harmful.

Loans are off-topic and not relevant to this discussion, but simply an attempt by you to de-rail the conversation. Dishonest.

[Drlee]

Don't worry Godstud. People like Agent Steel represent one reason why we have so many obese people.

Just for fun let's look at his assertion:

The key claim that you and others have made which is false and disparaging is the idea that it is a person's own fault that they are obese,

In some cases it is not their fault. In many it is the fault of their parents. It is the fault of the food industry that pushes calorie rich, nutritionally poor food. And then lobbies congress with millions of dollars whenever there is an effort to correct the problem.

But here is the deal. Even if we allowed that in many cases the "fault" belongs to others, you can't escape the reality that the solution lies with the obese individual. We can pass a law banning bad food but that in and of itself will not make these same obese people achieve a healthy and personally satisfying weight.

...or that people choose to be fat.

They probably don't choose to be fat. But there is no escaping the fact that they become fat one spoonful at a time.

You know Godstud, it is really too bad that so many people, like Agent Steel, are unwilling to be helpful to obese people. You and I, from a place of kindness and care, are ready to help them if they want to embark on the journey that you and I have already taken.

So many cruel people who, perhaps with good intention, condemn obese people to an unhappier and unhealthier life by telling them that they should not try to be thinner and healthier but rather just accept who they are. I know doctors who won't discuss weight loss with their patients because they don't want to run the risk of being accused of fat shaming.

But when I sit in a Culver's, eating my salad and watching a 400 pound person slam down two Butter-burgers and a short ton of french fries, then wash it all down with 48 ounces of sugar water laced with caffine; barely able make the walk to their car, it is not unreasonable to let the word "gluttony" creep into my mind.

But gluttony has a cure. You and I have taken that cure. And we can encourage and help others to do the same. And they live longer. And they live better. And they live with more confidence and self esteem. And they get the girl. And Agent Steel wants to steal that from them because.....at the end of the day he is dishonest. And he turns his dishonesty on obese people.

It is not unkind to speak frankly and honesty about obesity. Not to shame anyone but rather to educate and encourage. Fat shaming is wrong and so far in this thread, nobody has done that.

Congrats on getting back into your fighting trim. I was please today to see that I had taken off five pounds of the 10 I am working on loosing again myself.

At the clinic today we saw someone who weighed in at well over 300 pounds and rose to a towering 68 inches. And this person refuses the Covid vaccine because....well because he is an idiot listening to people who do not give one rat's ass about him. I read this young man the riot act. In no uncertain terms I told him that he ought to get vaccinated. Because I was fat shaming him? Nope. Because of this little tidbit from a study published by the NIH:

Conclusion: Obesity plays a profound role in risk for death from COVID-19, particularly in male patients and younger populations.

and this from the CDC:

People who have overweight or obesity*, compared to those with healthy weight, are at increased risk for many serious diseases and health conditions. These include:

All-causes of death (mortality).
High blood pressure (hypertension).
High LDL cholesterol, low HDL cholesterol, or high levels of triglycerides (dyslipidemia).
Type 2 diabetes.
Coronary heart disease.
Stroke.
Gallbladder disease.
Osteoarthritis (a breakdown of cartilage and bone within a joint).
Sleep apnea and breathing problems.
Many types of cancer.
Low quality of life.
Mental illness such as clinical depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders4,5.
Body pain and difficulty with physical functioning6.

I shouldn't have done it though. I might make him feel uncomfortable. But I wonder. More uncomfortable than cancer?

[Agent Steel]

I believe anyone who would choose to poison their bodies with garbage food or with drugs and alcohol is mentally ill and therefore they need to be treated as we treat those who are mentally ill.

We don't tell mental patients that they are to blame for their conditions. We recognize that they cannot control themselves. To tell a person with a mental illness that they are to blame for their condition is extremely destructive and insensitive.

Obesity is a result of mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice. Stop blaming the victims. Show more compassion and understanding!

[Drlee]

@Agent Steel

Obesity is a result of mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice. Stop blaming the victims. Show more compassion and understanding!

Well Godstud. Lookie here. We finally get this guy to show his cards. He thinks fat people are crazy. Probably enough said. At least now we have a solid example of someone fat shaming in this thread. And Agent Steel is the one who just did it.

Nice.

[Godstud]

@Drlee Yes, the tiger finally shows his stripes.

Obesity is not a mental illness, except in a very few cases(I mentioned mental illnesses/ED as exceptions). The majority of obesity cases are simply people who don't, or have lost, control of their diets. That's not mental illness.

@Agent Steel has no argument. It's Ad-Hoc Guesting where you attempt to make the exception, the rule. When that fails, he insults anyone who is overweight by saying they have a mental illness. That is fat-shaming at it's very worst. You are calling anyone who is fat, mentally ill. That's scummy.

[Agent Steel]

Fellows please...

How is what I'm saying any different from the self-described alcoholic who recognizes he has a disease, and moreover insists that the rest of the world recognize the disease as well?

Why is it that for some groups of people it is insensitive to dismiss a disease, whereas for others it's insensitive to label something a disease?

Riddle me that : ) Go ahead.

[Godstud]

Obesity, is not a disease. It doesn't matter how some people feel about it. Some afflictions can be factors in obesity, but it comes down to diet.

Alcoholism is not a disease, even if some people might feel it is. The opinions of a few, are irrelevant, on this, as well.

Labeling something a disease, because you FEEL like you have no control, when it's not, is the problem. The problem remains but there's not "medication" to cure you from obesity or alcoholism. This is the modern woke attitude that I am very surprised that you have bought into.

Again, I am not talking about exceptions. Pointing out exceptions is not an argument.

[MistyTiger]

Umm @Godstud I think I know why @Agent Steel has called obesity a disease. The CDC calls it a disease, the AMA voted to call it a disease. I don't think it's a disease and many will argue that it's wrong to call it a disease. Obesity can lead to complications like cardiac arrest and diabetes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179496/

Just an article discussing the AMA and why some want to call obesity a disease.

In most cases, obesity is caused by laziness and lack of motivation to move. People like to sit comfortably. Heck, I love to sit with a book and a blanket. But I do what I can to stay healthy. It's a daily investment.

I knew it, a certain person likes to fat shame! It reminds me of the pastors who point fingers when they're up in the pulpit and they scold people for being sinners. Yet they are among the sinners who they deride and judge. Are they any better? So I learned not to preach and act like I'm so noble. I'm imperfect and I don't need to brag about my oh-so magnanimous heart.

[Godstud]

Calling obesity a disease is very controversial.

Why Obesity Is and Isn't Considered a Disease
A number of factors influence obesity, some of which can’t be controlled. While eating choices and physical activity level can play a role, so can genetics.

Some medical experts express concern that calling obesity a disease can “foster a culture of personal irresponsibility.”Trusted Source Because doctors often want their patients to take an active role in their health, some worry classifying obesity as a disease may affect how people treat their health or think of their options and their abilities.
https://www.healthline.com/health/is-ob ... sagreement

There is not agreement. There is no consensus, either.

Is Obesity A Disease or A Behavior Abnormality? Did the AMA Get It Right?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6179496/

Why were people not obesity so rare 60 years ago?

It's "woke culture" trying to absolve people of personal responsibility. @Agent Steel has become the Social Justice Warrior he always wanted to be.

[Drlee]

I think we can see here the danger of those who wish to alibi the factors that make many (not all) people obese.

They don't even realize that they are robbing those of us who have lost considerable amounts of weight (on this forum for example Godstud and Misty) of the joy of their efforts. Oh. I guess we are just not ill. So lets look at it backward.

People who have lost a lot of weight to be healthier and happier. Are they just not suffering from this intractable illness? They are the ones for whom gluttony is the culprit. All the others are ill.

I really do feel for those who have quit smoking. It sucks to quit smoking. It hurts to quit smoking. But it feels wonderful to have quit smoking. The same with losing weight in a way. It feels great to have lost weight.

As I write this I am about to take my morning walk. I really don't want to take my morning walk. I am a bit tired from several days of hard and long work. So why do it? Virtue signaling? Nope. It is the knowledge that it will make me healthier in the long run, the dedication to the idea that I can be healthier in the long run and the discipline to force myself to do it even when I do not want to and have an excuse not to.

And there are people here who, it seems, want to point out that there are a majority of people who for some reason (illness?) who can't do this. Whose personalities are not capable of embracing these practices. They are like parents who tell their 10 year olds that they are just not good at math. Disgusting.

[Godstud]

It's not fatphobia, @Drlee. It's FITphobia. They are afraid of having the accountability and the responsibility over their lack of initiative. They look for any and all reasons NOT to act on their own behalf. It's easier to just claim victimhood, instead of taking responsibility for their own health choices.

I didn't go the gym today, because I took my son swimming for an hour. It's a good workout. I am trying to teach him good eating and exercise habits so he's never faced with obesity. He's only 12 years old, but he can already do 20 pushups, which is great for a skinny little 31 kg lad.

We should all be encouraging good diet, exercise habits AND accountability for your own health. VERY few people actually have health problems that actually hinder weight loss, and obesity itself will hurt you enough to make it harder to lose weight(eg. Thyroid damage). That certainly doesn't make it easier, but if you can avoid getting to that point, then you don't need to worry as much.

The Impact of Obesity on Thyroid Autoimmunity and Dysfunction: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
Our meta-analysis showed that obesity was significantly associated with increased risks of hypothyroidism, including overt hypothyroidism and subclinical hypothyroidism, and could be accompanied by at least 1.86-fold increase of developing hypothyroidism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... thyroidism.

[Igor Antunov]

Chronic obesity stems from an addiction - to food. I'm not about to respect alcoholics or meth addicts flaunting their shit in the wild, why should I respect fatties doing the same?

Now fatties in a gym, or drug addicts at an institution for getting clean - they are to be respected. The only disrespect I've ever seen at a gym has been between two roid junkies getting angsty over sharing equipment.

The very concept of a 'fat civil rights movement' or 'fat acceptable' as a lifestyle choice is disgusting. Proponents of such should be annihilated with extreme prejudice. They are promoting and trying to normalize highly destructive behaviour. Simply being tolerant and respectful toward somebody that is just there existing as very fat vs somebody that is claiming their fat is a positive thing - those are two different different things, the latter group being the subject of this discussion.

I really do feel for those who have quit smoking. It sucks to quit smoking. It hurts to quit smoking. But it feels wonderful to have quit smoking.

I've never seen a long time smoker simply quit smoking without replacing it with something else just as or even more debilitating. Usually alcoholism. I've seen this trend with family, friends and beyond. Always. If they quit they start ingesting copious amounts of alcohol. Nicotine is a hell of a drug. It can never be truly escaped scott free.

[Godstud]

If someone is fat/obese/overweight, but at the gym, they are to be respected for making the effort. I'd go so far as to seriously encourage it and assist in any way, having been there myself.

Calling people "fatties" IS fat-shaming, incidentally.

I've only very rarely seen any serious breaches of gym etiquette. Most people are very polite and respectful of others.

Yes, the "civil rights for fat people" and "healthy at every size" is ridiculous. You are capable of controlling your weight. It takes effort that some people don't want to make.

The Fat Rights Movement is the only movement where there actually isn't any.

[Agent Steel]

Alcoholism is not a disease, even if some people might feel it is. The opinions of a few, are irrelevant, on this, as well.

It has been labeled a disease in the official medical literature and so has drug addiction and obesity.

I myself have never had any problems with drug addiction or obesity. I can control myself. I have a strong mind. And thank God for that. And yes, it does take effort and discipline to be in shape. But I can do it and recognize that other people can't do it. My attitude is about helping people who can't help themselves.

Nobody would choose to be addicted to food or drugs. It happens by accident. I have tried all kinds of drugs and I have never gotten addicted. But when I hear people blaming drug addicts it makes my blood curdle because it's such a judgmental and horrible thing to say to someone. Do not attack people who are unable to help themselves. Recognize that they have a disability. It's a disease of the mind. IT IS NOT A CHOICE.

[Godstud]

My attitude is about helping people who can't help themselves.

That's simply not true. The only thing you have done in this thread is to try to make it appear as if obesity is beyond people's control and to remove accountability for obese people.

Nobody would choose to be addicted to food or drugs.

Most people are not addicted to food or drugs. It's a lie that people like to repeat, but it's not true.

It happens by accident.

Food doesn't "accidentally" fall in your mouth. I've never had this happen and I can ask a 100 people who will say the same thing.

Do not attack people who are unable to help themselves.

No one is attacking anyone.

People can help themselves to lose weight, though. You want to remove personal responsibility and accountability from people, for some fucked-up reason that I do not understand. Are you obese now? Is that it, and you are looking for excuses? What's your agenda, here?

Recognize that they have a disability.

It's self-imposed, so it's NOT a disability. Being a paraplegic is a disability. Being obese because of your life-choices, is not.

It's a disease of the mind.

So now you want to waive responsibility by calling them crazy...

You can scream, "IT IS NOT A CHOICE.", with all the emotional angst you can summon, Agent Fat-acceptance Social Justice Warrior Steel, but it doesn't change reality.

What you eat, and how much, are decisions that everyone makes all the time. Choices.

[Agent Steel]

@Igor Antunov Please understand that my aim is NOT to claim that being fat is a positive thing and that we should simply accept it. I am not trying to enable people.

I simply want to raise awareness about the very hard struggles that obese people go through, and point out that the reason they have so much difficulty overcoming it is because of a medical condition that they are powerless to control.

My argument totally parallels what we recognize about drug and alcohol addiction. It's the same idea.

Again I want to say that I myself have used various drugs and I have always maintained power and control over them. I never had any addiction issues. I therefore recognize that my mind is strong and privileged over those who have weak and undisciplined minds. I am grateful for my ability to control my urges. It is a privilege. Others lack that ability and I feel sorry for them. It must be absolutely horrible to be a drug addict or an obese person. Don't you feel sorry for them? This is simply a matter of recognizing that some people have terrible problems that they aren't able to overcome. They probably hate themselves and hate their existence.

[Igor Antunov]

If someone is fat/obese/overweight, but at the gym, they are to be respected for making the effort. I'd go so far as to seriously encourage it and assist in any way, having been there myself.

Calling people "fatties" IS fat-shaming, incidentally.

I've only very rarely seen any serious breaches of gym etiquette. Most people are very polite and respectful of others.

Yes, the "civil rights for fat people" and "healthy at every size" is ridiculous. You are capable of controlling your weight. It takes effort that some people don't want to make.

The Fat Rights Movement is the only movement where there actually isn't any.

To their face or in an academic/medical context, yes. But in mere discussion no. One can use whatever terms one wants. Now you're just language shaming.

I simply want to raise awareness about the very hard struggles that obese people go through, and point out that the reason they have so much difficulty overcoming it is because of a medical condition that they are powerless to control.

I know a few people with hormonal issues that makes losing weight for them without medical intervention almost impossible. I'm not talking about them, in the grand context of the obese population, they are a tiny proportion. We are talking about THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LIVING IN THE WEST. 60-70% are OBESE. This is due to the chosen lifestyle, commuting by car, gorging on carbs/fast food. This is who we are discussing. 99% of them are just fat lazy cunts and should be treated as such. They are not a poor oppressed minority. They are the majority.