[ness31]

Fat shaming might save someone’s life from a massive heart attack or immobility for the rest of their life. Immobility. Being stuck in prison of fat, unable to dress yourself, pick things up off the floor or lead a normal life. We use shock therapy to re-wire peoples brains, but you have an issue with fat shaming?

[wat0n]

Fat shaming might save someone’s life from a massive heart attack or immobility for the rest of their life. Immobility. Being stuck in prison of fat, unable to dress yourself, pick things up off the floor or lead a normal life. We use shock therapy to re-wire peoples brains, but you have an issue with fat shaming?

It doesn't work. Instead, they'll dig in.

Honestly, best solution is to let them figure it out by themselves. Yes, tell them it's unhealthy, truth is always good. Yes, tell them they can feel better with themselves, and have an easier time in the dating market. And tell them they don't need to "diet" but change their lives, which is what it takes anyway.

But don't do much more than that. It's useless at best, counterproductive at worst. Ultimately, it's up to them to make the effort required to lose the weight. It's not a small one, by the way.

[Politics_Observer]

@wat0n @ness31 @Godstud

Here is a good article that discusses the harmful effects of fat shaming.

Fat shaming is harmful to health and may drive weight gain, said presenters at the Canadian Obesity Summit, recently held in Ottawa.

Anti-fat bias is rampant in all parts of society, including medicine, said Angela Alberga, an assistant professor in the department of health, kinesiology and applied physiology at Concordia University. More than three in five adults with obesity encounter weight bias from health professionals, according to Obesity Canada. Some medical ethicists even argue that this social pressure is justified to promote weight loss.

But the harms of fat shaming are well documented, Alberga said. Studies show that exposure to weight bias triggers physiological and behavioural changes linked to poor metabolic health and increased weight gain. “You actually experience a form of stress,” Alberga explained. Cortisol spikes, self-control drops and the risk of binge eating increases, she said.

The more people are exposed to weight bias and discrimination, the more likely they are to gain weight and become obese, even if they were thin to begin with. They’re also more likely to die from any cause, regardless of their body mass index (BMI).

Fat shaming is also linked to depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, eating disorders and exercise avoidance, Alberga said. There’s emerging evidence that the severity of harm increases when people internalize weight bias and turn it on themselves. In one study, participants with high levels of internalization of weight-bias had three times greater odds of having metabolic syndrome than those with low levels, even after controlling for BMI and other risk factors.

“It’s a really complex relationship” that goes beyond energy-in-energy-out, Alberga said. It’s estimated that two in five Americans with a higher than “normal” BMI have internalized weight bias. But you don’t have to be overweight or obese to suffer harm, Alberga noted. “Weight-bias internalization can occur with any body size.”

Better research is needed to understand the unique harms of internalizing anti-fat attitudes and assumptions, she said. Most studies have been cross-sectional and focused on samples of white women, and not much is known about interventions to reduce internalization of weight bias. Losing weight, for example, doesn’t seem to make an impact.

According to Sara Kirk, a professor of health promotion at Dalhousie University and scientific director of the Healthy Populations Institute, tackling weight bias must start in health care. Judgmental responses of disgust, anger or blame from health professionals jeopardize care and discourage many patients from seeking help for health issues. “This is a systemic issue we need to be addressing,” Kirk said.

At Dalhousie, Kirk’s team created an arts-based workshop to teach trainees about the complexity of obesity, evoke empathy, and challenge stereotypes. A pilot demonstrated “significant reduction in anti-fat attitudes,” Kirk said. About 1200 health care trainees have received the training to date. “Unfortunately, we still don’t have long-term data on these students,” Kirk said.

Beyond personal biases, the medical profession must also address bias in clinical guidelines. According to Toronto-based dietitian Maria Ricupero, many guidelines promote weight loss without acknowledging weight bias or environmental factors. Instead, “they emphasize what the individual can do to make change, which leads to guilt, shame and judgment.” Ricupero argues the focus needs to shift from weight to health. “We know health benefits can be achieved when people are focusing on behaviours.”

Canadian practice guidelines for obesity currently in development will aim to redress that imbalance, said Alberga. “We’ll address weight bias and stigma in a dedicated chapter.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6565398/

[Godstud]

@Politics_Observer It's about POSITIVE reinforcement. When people are fat and wish to change, you give them every bit of encouragement you can to achieve their goal.

Telling someone they need to lose weight, because they are unhealthy, is not "fat shaming". It's pointing out a reality. That said, you don't have to be an asshole about it.

[wat0n]

Exactly, just don't be an asshole.

Mind you, having a harder time to date whoever you want, along with the constant reinforcement of the prevailing beauty standards, is enough to send the message. You don't need to appeal to something as abstract as the long term health effects of being fat to do so, even if it's true.

Encouragement is a far better way to go about it.

[Godstud]

Yes, some people prefer big women/men, but this isn't a prevailing attitude, and to be honest. Such has always been the case.

Biologically we are driven to mate with people who are fit and healthy. So fit and healthy people are seen as the most attractive. It's why models (male and female) are, in general, healthy looking and slender.

The health effects are a HUGE reason to not be obese. A large number of people struck down by Covid-19 were obese. This isn't a coincidence.

Health problems are not "abstract". There are significant health problems and they are easily identified.

Heart disease and stroke
High blood pressure
Diabetes
Some cancers
Gallbladder disease and gallstones
Osteoarthritis
Gout
Breathing problems, such as sleep apnea (when a person stops breathing for short episodes during sleep) and asthma
https://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/obesity-health-risks

That doesn't even mention the load it puts on your joints and muscles when you are obese and carrying around an extra 15-40 kg+.

Obesity frequently contributes to soft tissue damage and osteoarthritis—a progressive wear- and-tear disease of the joints. The impact of obesity is especially felt in osteoarthritis of the hip and knee joints. Every pound of body weight places four to six pounds of pressure on each knee joint.
https://www.aaos.org/contentassets/1cd7 ... ealth1.pdf

These are not "abstract". They are easily identified as fact, and if you've ever been obese, you'd see the effects almost immediately for many of these problems. I know I did, and they were far more pronounced once I LOST that weight, and felt the difference.

[wat0n]

The health problems that correlate with being fat themselves aren't abstract, but the fact that you may have them 20, 30 or 40 years from now definitely is (and that's if you have them at all, since in the end it's probabilistic - some fat people just manage to live without those health problems at all, it's just that staying fat amounts to playing a lottery you don't wanna play to begin with).

The dating/relationship aspect is immediate and far more concrete from that point of view. Yes, even if you're fat you may find someone but you'll have a harder time, worse if you don't find fat people attractive yourself. This is a concrete, immediate problem they have to deal with.

[Godstud]

Health problems from obesity can be immediate, and thinking they'll happen in 20 years is simply wishful thinking.

The average lifespan of a really obese person is only around 55 years old, in the USA(about a 20 year reduction). You don't see ANY obese 70+ year olds. Why do you think that is?

The fat phobic movements now seek to normalize obesity, when that's what we absolutely should NOT be doing.

We don't say smoking's OK. Why should any unhealthy lifestyle be promoted?

[wat0n]

I'm thinking about the BMI<40 cases, who still represent most fat people.

As for the morbidly obese (BMI>=40)... Well, I'd say being unable to walk normally on your own counts as pretty damn immediate. They probably fully understand they have fucked themselves up by that point.

[ness31]

It doesn't work. Instead, they'll dig in.

Honestly, best solution is to let them figure it out by themselves. Yes, tell them it's unhealthy, truth is always good. Yes, tell them they can feel better with themselves, and have an easier time in the dating market. And tell them they don't need to "diet" but change their lives, which is what it takes anyway.

But don't do much more than that. It's useless at best, counterproductive at worst. Ultimately, it's up to them to make the effort required to lose the weight. It's not a small one, by the way.

Yes but even pointing out that it’s unhealthy is classified as fat shaming.

[wat0n]

Yes but even pointing out that it’s unhealthy is classified as fat shaming.

Yes, those people are idiots. We don't say pointing out smoking is bad for you is smoker shaming.

But this is clearly not the same as being an asshole to fat people.

[Agent Steel]

This is the weirdest thread. Agent Steel vociferously defending the right to be fat was not something I ever thought I’d see.

But here we are .

It's because I have grown to become a compassionate, caring, and kind man. I want to lift people up, not cut them down.

The reason why I can make a thread like this is because I have a wonderful life, have wonderful genetics, and am privileged in many ways. I have never struggled to lose weight in the way that Godstud or DrLee have. I don't have to work at it. I am free to enjoy my life and was born with genes that allow me to easily stay healthy and fit. This is what allows me to recognize and respect the struggles of those who are less fortunate than I am.

Less fortunate people like @Politics_Observer are fighting tough battles every day and have to constantly struggle. I not only sympathize with him but I fucking SALUTE him. I don't think Godstud or DrLee have any clue the struggles that he is facing all the time. Instead they want to claim that he's not trying hard enough, or that it's all his fault that he hasn't been able to lose weight. That is bullying and bigotry in my honest opinion.

I think their position is kind of like the conservatives who say things like "I paid off MY student debt, why can't you?". For them they argue from a place of personal ego. It's good that they accomplished something, but it's wrong for them to use that personal accomplishment as a way to judge OTHER people. The reality is that people are different and some people have a much, much harder time to succeed than others. I RECOGNIZE this unfortunate reality and that is why I stand up for those people and protect them against bullies. I want to help those who cannot help themselves.

[Godstud]

I don't think Godstud or DrLee have any clue the struggles that he is facing all the time.

You need to vastly improve your reading comprehension. Even @Politics_Observer is giving my posts a "Likes", because I am not doing what you are claiming I am doing.

Instead they want to claim that he's not trying hard enough, or that it's all his fault that he hasn't been able to lose weight. That is bullying and bigotry in my honest opinion.

Your opinion is worthless, as it is predicated on a lie.

Everyone, unless they are being force-fed, controls what they consume. That's reality.

I want to help those who cannot help themselves.

I very much doubt this is your motivation, because your main goal in this thread appears to be trying to demonize people by what they have not said.

[Drlee]

@Drlee

That's bullshit, you old fossil Boomer. Calling people “hey lard ass” or making fun of the fact they are fat, just teaches them to hate themselves and encourages unhealthy behaviors. Some people are just built that way, dude. It really is in their genes. Some are more susceptible to being fat than others. This is an undeniable fact. And some are gifted with good genes when they were born that enable them to look good while eating with little regard to diet. It's a fact.

It's how many supermodels made it in the fashion industry, the ones that don't become bulimic and anorexic, that is, and destroy themselves in the process trying to be the perfect body type that society wants them to be and deems “acceptable.” Which teaching others to be bulimic or anorexic (particularly women) or that the way they were born is “unacceptable” is no way going to "help" them. Teaching others to be bulimic or anorexic (which this is a problem for women) by making fun of fat people is not encouraging such people to make healthy choices or trying to "help" them.

But fucking bigots and bullies just want to bully and fuck with people just to put them down, so they feel better and superior over others. But like I said before, just because somebody is more prone to being fat, doesn't mean they can't make healthy choices or exercise. But what you insist on doing is saying “well I just want to be able to belittle, put down, make fun of fat people for being fat, so they feel small and hate themselves and not be called out on it.” See, that's your goal.

That in no way is helping anybody. Just because you are skinny, doesn't make you better than somebody who is fat, too. We all have our talents that we offer society. Some people are born gifted with athleticism. Some are born gifted with being handsome or beautiful and go to make millions making money off their looks that were genetically gifted to them when they were born. Others are born gifted with genius but are ugly bastards. Others might be gifted with natural talents in entrepreneurship. But at the end of the day, we all have value and should never be put down, belittled, or taught to hate ourselves just because we are more prone to look a certain way because of the genes we were born with.

You know what young man, I am so through with you and your knee jerk defensiveness. None of the fucking tripe you posted above even resembles what is going on here. Nobody has called anyone names. Nobody is making fun of anyone. And seriously dude. Don't lecture me on the science. 'K? And if you are going to get on your high horse and name call, I highly suggest you at least try to get an adult who is not triggered to explain what has been said.

Don't engage with me on the forum. I have had enough of your shit. I do recommend you get some help with your anger and defensiveness on this issue. Seriously.

And @Agent Steel

I am just going to write off your ramblings as those of a narcissist who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[ness31]

It's because I have grown to become a compassionate, caring, and kind man. I want to lift people up, not cut them down.

The reason why I can make a thread like this is because I have a wonderful life, have wonderful genetics, and am privileged in many ways. I have never struggled to lose weight in the way that Godstud or DrLee have. I don't have to work at it. I am free to enjoy my life and was born with genes that allow me to easily stay healthy and fit. This is what allows me to recognize and respect the struggles of those who are less fortunate than I am.

Less fortunate people like @Politics_Observer are fighting tough battles every day and have to constantly struggle. I not only sympathize with him but I fucking SALUTE him. I don't think Godstud or DrLee have any clue the struggles that he is facing all the time. Instead they want to claim that he's not trying hard enough, or that it's all his fault that he hasn't been able to lose weight. That is bullying and bigotry in my honest opinion.

I think their position is kind of like the conservatives who say things like "I paid off MY student debt, why can't you?". For them they argue from a place of personal ego. It's good that they accomplished something, but it's wrong for them to use that personal accomplishment as a way to judge OTHER people. The reality is that people are different and some people have a much, much harder time to succeed than others. I RECOGNIZE this unfortunate reality and that is why I stand up for those people and protect them against bullies. I want to help those who cannot help themselves.

Ooohp, there he is! There’s the Agent Steel I know! Ahh, I thought you were being serious there for a sec

[MistyTiger]

Ooohp, there he is! There’s the Agent Steel I know! Ahh, I thought you were being serious there for a sec

Indeed. He's basically saying that he is so fortunate to be so fit and gorgeous (while other people are not). I said this in a previous post and I was laughed at.

[Politics_Observer]

@Drlee

You know what young man, I am so through with you and your knee jerk defensiveness. None of the fucking tripe you posted above even resembles what is going on here. Nobody has called anyone names. Nobody is making fun of anyone. And seriously dude. Don't lecture me on the science. 'K? And if you are going to get on your high horse and name call, I highly suggest you at least try to get an adult who is not triggered to explain what has been said.

Don't engage with me on the forum. I have had enough of your shit. I do recommend you get some help with your anger and defensiveness on this issue. Seriously.

And @Agent Steel

I am just going to write off your ramblings as those of a narcissist who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

OK Boomer, here is a tip. Learn to be nice and people will be nice to you. Be an asshole and people will be an asshole with you. It's simple. I call it the Golden Rule. You being an old fossil should know what the Golden Rule is, right? Good, so follow it and you won't have to worry about people being a jerk to you in return. See, I get tired of your knee-jerk bigotry and simply not listening and trying to make excuses for your bigotted attitude and somehow pretend that "you are not like that." I know better. I am not fooled. I have seen your attitude in other threads.

Don't engage with me on the forum.

@MistyTiger @ness31 @Agent Steel

So, basically, Agent Steel is an asshole like some of the others who basically makes fun of the struggles of other people. Good to know. Fuck you too Agent Steel. Next time you are struggling with something, I'll be an asshole right back and rub it in your face in a condescending way to see how you like it. You sound like a real narcissist.

[ness31]

Indeed. He's basically saying that he is so fortunate to be so fit and gorgeous (while other people are not). I said this in a previous post and I was laughed at.

I’m sorry I missed your post, but started at the last page and barely worked my way back…I just couldn’t

[Politics_Observer]

@ness31

It's like I said, based on what you are telling me and @MistyTiger , @Agent Steel is basically an insecure narcissist who is full of himself and takes pleasure in putting others down to make himself feel good due to his own fragile ego.

[ness31]

@ness31

It's like I said, based on what you are telling me and @MistyTiger , @Agent Steel is basically an insecure narcissist who is full of himself and takes pleasure in putting others down to make himself feel good due to his own fragile ego.

You should read some of his threads on dating and women There isn’t a woman on earth that could possibly meet his criteria for what it means to be attractive. If I remember correctly, this problem had caused him to be single for extended periods of time, poor thing.

Fortunately, he’s empathetic enough to recognize it’s his superior genetics that have put him in this situation and it’s a cross he must bare. Agent steel has a heart made of the most rare of earths