[MB.]

.... that I was at about two weeks ago featured a 'collection' of several guerillas. The enviroment in which they were kept was a cement enclosed pen, with a glassed over viewing area. From the glassed in area, the guerillas would stumble about while being gawked at by locals (or foriegners). The glass had been damaged in two places- from the inside.

If that wasn't enough, two of guerillas, when I was whatching, had their backs up to the glass. Kids would run up and gawk, while tapping on the glass to get the guerilla's attention. One of guerillas, already with its back turned to the kids, *hit* the glass were one of the kids was tapping. The power behind this gesture basically broke me. Such creatures, so similiar in appearnce to men, trying to escape- as was very obvious- was simply to much. How easily it could be the men behind the glass, and the guerillas gawking at us.

I know this is over kill, and the point of this post is not to advocate freeing the animals or anything like that, it is to raise a question: why would people show such patronising contempt for animals whos actions were enough to remind me of men, let alone the genetic connection.

Why would anyone want to see such a display in the first place, and even then, not regard it as taboo?

[Yeddi]

Firstly, you've got the wrong spelling of gorilla, i kept on imagining Che adn his cronies tapping on the glass, and whilst that was entertaining i knew that wasn't waht you meant.

Ok, that being said.
My god... your zoo is evil. Concrete floors! At the Melbourne zoo it almost feels as if we have built a building around the animals, so much so that on a bad day you wont catch a glipse of the gorilla's as they're hiding in all of the vegitation, and i'm happy with that. As you state they are so very similar to us, adn they diserve to be happy.

[MB.]

I WAS reffering to the 'Kong as a matter of fact- all trapped down in this concrete bunkers.... Nevermind.

[Demosthenes]

I don't care for zoos at all, I am (yes here it comes again) boycotting them and have been for quite some time. I, too have never understood the allure of trapping an animal and placing it in a cage for our viewing pleasure. To me that's quite inhumane and distasteful. I too, don't believe in freeing them at this point. (It's too late for that) I just think if enough people stop going to these things they will be forced to close.

If I want to see a gorilla, I'll save my money and travel Africa and try to see one in there natural habitat. Same with a Rhino, Tiger, Lion or anything else. Even Yeddi's zoo that seems to make the best of a bad situation is regrettable to me. Why can't we just leave things alone?

-ok now, the dislaimer part lest someone take me for a PETA loving liberal, I don't see anything wrong with hunting, though I don't hunt personally, I don't believe people who wear fur are evil, though I don't wear it. I don't think all animal experimentation is wrong, though some of the more pointless tests (like cosmetics) are over the top. And I'm not a tree huggeer by any stretch of the imagination.

Now I also have a gorilla story from the only time I was ever at a zoo, I was 5 years old and my parents took me to the St. Louis zoo. We moseyed over to the Gorilla exhibit and I got right up to the bars to look at em more closely(remember this was circa- 1976) anyway I'm looking at this big bastard thinking "this is a really big bastard..." when the male walks up to me and grabs me by the top of my head and starts squeezing.

My mom freaked out and ran up to him and slapped his hand and yelled at him to "Put my son down!" (now you have to undertand my mom is a short little 5' foot tall woman whose voice is the only possible thing intimidating about her) Anyway this huge arse Gorilla made a grunting noise and let me go. He backed away with an astonished look on his mug while rubbing his hand...Mom snatched me away...and that's about all I remember. Heh heh damn gorillas...

[Catria]

I'm looking at this big bastard thinking "this is a really big bastard..." when the male walks up to me and grabs me by the top of my head and starts squeezing.

That explains alot...

[Truth-a-naut]

To me that's quite inhumane and distasteful.

Why?
In about 100 years this planet will be a Zoo, one day the Amazon rainforest will be like central park in NY; surrounded by development and people, by keeping animals in enclosures we are merely enabling their survival albeit short...
Your viewing animals as Human something they are not, nor will they ever be, instead of worrying whether or not a Gorilla likes its 'enclosure' we should be concentrating on fixing human problems.
Our species should come first and foremost, and if using *lower species as entertainment is something people want then we should do it.

*I am sure gorillas, chimps, dolphins and parrots are smart; but not smart enough to be granted human rights and freedoms.

[CasX]

Zoo's are kind of weird, but seem to generally do a good job environmentally of: a) saving species, and b) creating public environmental and natural awareness. Yeddi, I went to the Melbourne Zoo last year, and it's cool.

Going to the Zoo is cool.

PS, Don't listen to the 'Don't feed the animals' sign, wasn't the animals 'put them signs up.

[Demosthenes]

Why?
In about 100 years this planet will be a Zoo, one day the Amazon rainforest will be like central park in NY; surrounded by development and people, by keeping animals in enclosures we are merely enabling their survival albeit short...
Your viewing animals as Human something they are not, nor will they ever be, instead of worrying whether or not a Gorilla likes its 'enclosure' we should be concentrating on fixing human problems.
Our species should come first and foremost, and if using *lower species as entertainment is something people want then we should do it.

*I am sure gorillas, chimps, dolphins and parrots are smart; but not smart enough to be granted human rights and freedoms.

First of all (and gawd, I knew someone was going to take this wrong) I"M NOT AN ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST! My only opinion is I don't like zoos.

I agree human problems are vastly more important. Yet, I don't see why we should lack all compassion for these animals in the process. Maybe it's because I have hunted in the past that I feel this way. Locking them in zoos just shows no respect for the animals spirit. I don't know how to explain it otherwise.

And I never said they should have human rights. Remember who you're talking to? I'm still lovable ole concervative me. I can exercize my personal opinion on zoos and not be in the business of trying to grant animals human rights, although I could argue it's not up to human's to grant anyone anything...but I suppose for purposes of this discussion it applies.

Your viewing animals as Human something they are not,

This sentance bugs me quite a bit. I AM NOT viewing them as humans. Have you ever hunted? Have you ever took the time to really observe your pets? I'm not saying they are equal to us but I do think they deserve to be treated fairly like any sentient organism. And since most are not born in man-made cages I find it distasteful and rude to force an animal to live in one, no matter how nice. But once again my only action on all of this is not to visit zoos. Notice I didn't condem any one person fro attending them? Only the zoo?

Catria said:

That explains a lot...

Oh hush, he didn't pop my eyes outta my skull he just squeezed it. I imagine it would have been quite funny to see.

[Truth-a-naut]

Have you ever hunted? Have you ever took the time to really observe your pets?

Yes I do hunt; ducks, geese, w/t deer, mule deer and the occaisonal moose. And yes I have a pet.
But I don't hunt pets... yet...

[Comrade Juanito]

This is a very interesting topic, and also, unless your talking about terrorists in a glass pen, please spell it gorillas. But anyway, i think people like to strut out their power to others, just like the man to man action bragging. We want to just show how much more powerful we are to others and to make ourselves seem a lot bigger and better than them, its just nature, and i brag now and then and when i look back i hate it, because who like that anyway? im sure the gorillas didnt.

[Catria]

Oh hush, he didn't pop my eyes outta my skull he just squeezed it. I imagine it would have been quite funny to see.

I was just kidding. I really think it's a cute story Demothenes...it's pretty special to have been picked up by a gorilla!

[Demosthenes]

I was just kidding. I really think it's a cute story Demothenes...it's pretty special to have been picked up by a gorilla!

I gathered you were kidding...and it's not cute, ITS EXTREMELY MANLY! I think I need to kill something now...

Yes I do hunt; ducks, geese, w/t deer, mule deer and the occaisonal moose. And yes I have a pet.
But I don't hunt pets... yet...

So then you have to know what I'm talking about. When hunting you develope quite a respect for your prey. That's all I'm talking about respecting their lives. Which to me is not done by putting them in a zoo.

[Yeddi]

it's not cute, ITS EXTREMELY MANLY!...

OBSCURE YEDDI REFERENCE
Evidence:

IT'S NOT CUTE!, It's MANLY, i am expressing my masculinity while doing it, adn showing the world that my heart pumps pure testosterone!

We're not so different you and i Demosthenes... except for the hunting thing... i couldn't do that, and you live in America, well and you're older, and well...

[Tigerlily]

I went to a zoo on Tuesday.

I got to go inside and play with the deer (they just walked away from you if you didn't have food...). I also seen my favorite animal, the Siberian tiger. And I then went to the petting farm and a baby goat tried to walk out with me. I love baby goats. (^_^)

There wasn't much cement. There was a cement wall for the bears but they were lying down under some trees and bushes and stuff.

They actually had fences, not cages.

[Yeddi]

Not a Siberian Fox Baby?;)

[Tigerlily]

Siberian Fox? No, I didn't see any of those...

[Ocker]

I am against zoos, while yes, some zoos are built more for animal preservation than for human satisfaction, most are the opposite.

What would be better in my eyes, are places like zoos, but built solely for the research and protection of endangered species, and the prevention of more endangered species, preferably also located in locations more natural, rather than smack in the middle of Sydney etc. ...

As Demosthenes said, it has always been my dream since childhood to travel to such magnificently biodiverse locations such as Africa, Amazon, Congo etc., and to see the animals in their natural habitat.

Has anyone seen a movie (forget the title ) about an old man who has lived in Africa most of his life, and he is sort of...'one' with the Lions (The Lion Whisperer? )? It made me crie