[Rugoz]

The video lost me when it said leftists are envious of winners and thus try to "destroy them".

I generally find that to be the laziest argument by right-wingers.

[One Degree]

No, the average right winger believes we should help the poor. They do not believe they should share their wealth equally with someone who is uneducated, unemployed, on drugs, in a gang, etc. because they are not the equals of those who worked and earned. It is a matter of the degree of help that should be given that separates the master and slave mentality.

[SolarCross]

Just because crusaders were in your mind virile because of violence doesn't make it less slave morality. What they and most Christians believed was a morally rightious cause was just basic political power play by the Vatican and European rulers.

A warrior slave is still a slave.

The crusaders weren't slaves though, they weren't even conscripts but all volunteers after loot and pillage for themselves. They got pretty rich too.

Another fact about Christianity which mitigates the slave morality charge made against it is that Christianity was the first religion to ban slavery. This might be taken as consistent with a slave morality as you can see that as taking the side of losers but initially they only banned slavery for Christians everyone else was fair game... That is a master morality.

[mikema63]

Nietzshes concept of slave morality doesn't mean they were literally slaves.

No, the average right winger believes we should help the poor. They do not believe they should share their wealth equally with someone who is uneducated, unemployed, on drugs, in a gang, etc. because they are not the equals of those who worked and earned. It is a matter of the degree of help that should be given that separates the master and slave mentality.

Look how easily you've slipped into the moral equivocation that justifies the people in power not having to give up a smidge of their power to help the poor. No, you've been told that government funds always go to welfare queens and drug addicts because that's what you've been told, and what you've read, and what you've seen on TV. You haven't seen the orders of magnitude more people who have fallen on hard times or we're screwed by birth or family and have been helped tremendously by these programs.

Indeed even the idea that helping the sick and poor should be dependent on them having a particular attitude is just an equivocation.

It's stuff like that that makes me believe that morality is a bullshit idea.

[SolarCross]

Nietzshes concept of slave morality doesn't mean they were literally slaves.

I know, it was you not Nietzsche that called the crusaders warrior-slaves. Watch the video again... note how the loser tactic of the leftist is to attack that which it envies by misrepresenting that thing as its opposite... Maybe a penny will drop.

[One Degree]

You are simply expressing the slave view. I had 2 jobs and often 3 my working life. My social security is enough I don't qualify for most government programs. I can not afford a dentist or eye doctor. I don't go to the doctor because I can't afford my share. People who worked less than me, or not at all, are given carte blanche including cell, phones and internet. This is slave thinking that those who never produced should enjoy more than those who did.

[Rugoz]

Nietzsches concepts of master/slave morality sound like nonsense to me anyway. Ultimately compassion is the only source of morality.

[RhetoricThug]

Nietzsche Perfectly Forecasts the Postmodernist Left
It should read, Stephen Hicks reinterprets Nietzsche to fit his idea of the post-modern left. Please note, contemporary postmodernism is primarily apolitical because its philosophy is a tool used to explore semiotics, ideology, art, culture, etc. People need to stop grouping nihilism and postmodernism together, they are not synonymous. Political labels and social movements revolve around structuralism, so calling the left post-modern seems like a political tactic used by Hicks to formalize and stretch identity politics. Moreover, postmodernism resembles post-structuralism when it is applied as sociological theory. He should be embarrassed because philosophers should be objective and analytical, not motivated by political trends. Today, I think Nietzsche would write 'beyond left & right' in response to the contemporary political architecture/idea-scape.

This is a shallow thread.

Nietzsches concepts of master/slave morality sound like nonsense to me anyway. Ultimately compassion is the only source of morality.

Exactly, Nietzsche externalized his own self-image problem due to the existential angst of his time. I bet Nietzsche is secretly jealous of Christ-esque morality because it seems impossible to achieve. In other words, you'll never find Nietzsche under a fig tree

[One Degree]

This thread riled me up. For those of you who wonder who Trump supporters are, maybe it is people like me. I have sat in my apartment thinking I was having a heart attack, but refused to call 911. Why? Because if it is not a heart attack then I just bankrupted myself for no reason. Meanwhile, day after day, I see neighbors call 911 because their toe hurts, because they have never worked and it is all free. I then can turn on the Liberal media and hear how I am oppressing poor minorities, because I am a white racist.
Those who wish to shout Trump supporters down, simply don't understand who you are dealing with. We have had enough hypocrisy from people who don't have a clue as to who we really are and what are concerns are.

I realized I am off topic, but I feel better even if this post is deleted.

Edit: Just wanted to add how great it feels to work your whole life so your taxes could support those who did not to a level that left nothing for me. If you expect to get anything out of the Democrats platform, then I suggest you quit work. Their party base is the poor and the naive, but they only help the former. Their enemy is the working class that is required to pay for everything in this weird fantasy world. They really should have the motto of, "the more you contribute, the less you deserve ".

[Potemkin]

Nietzsches concepts of master/slave morality sound like nonsense to me anyway. Ultimately compassion is the only source of morality.

God forbid! Any system of morality based on people feeling compassion for each other would break down almost immediately. Most people have little compassion even for immediate family members, let alone complete strangers.

[RhetoricThug]

God forbid! Any system of morality based on people feeling compassion for each other would break down almost immediately. Most people have little compassion even for immediate family members, let alone complete strangers.

BOLLOCKS! Sounds like a personal problem based on your finite experience, Potemkin. I hope you find love. We're biochemically hardwired for compassion, only a small percent of the human family have psychopathic tendencies. Furthermore, most of our psychopathic brothers/sisters end up in politics/big business, that may be why you're so damn bitter. We need better social systems in order to prevent psychopaths from capturing leadership roles.

[B0ycey]

Did I listen to a different video? Nietzsches slave morality concept was hardly a footnote in the video but has taken most of the thread. I think Hicks has actually nailed how I see things today. We do indeed have resentment among classes and somehow people feel like they should have everything without working for it. Like they are entitled because they were lucky enough to be born in the West. And we have a lot of bollocks written that isn't true or heavily distorted on PoFo to believe a concept has some validation or to slander other political concepts they don't like. The support for Communism - or more specifically Stalin is testament to this statement. Stalin, the working classes worse enemy and ultimate puppet master is somehow regarded as a hero! Seriously. Defended even. But ultimately death figures and witness statements don't lie and we have historic records that prove Stalin was more a fascist rather than a socialist. So Hicks is correct. The lie doesn't matter whether it is true or not. People will write it knowing it's bollocks to somehow justify their belief of entitlement or resentment. And communists are the main culprits when it comes to this.

[Rugoz]

God forbid! Any system of morality based on people feeling compassion for each other would break down almost immediately. Most people have little compassion even for immediate family members, let alone complete strangers.

Compassion + reason if you extend it to large communities, but compassion is still the basis.

Furthermore, most of our psychopathic brothers/sisters end up in politics/big business

They have the master morality, that is no morality at all (OMG I'm such a slave ).

Seriously though, maybe Nietzsche is talking about social norms and not about morality.

[quetzalcoatl]

This thread riled me up. For those of you who wonder who Trump supporters are, maybe it is people like me. I have sat in my apartment thinking I was having a heart attack, but refused to call 911. Why? Because if it is not a heart attack then I just bankrupted myself for no reason. Meanwhile, day after day, I see neighbors call 911 because their toe hurts, because they have never worked and it is all free. I then can turn on the Liberal media and hear how I am oppressing poor minorities, because I am a white racist.
Those who wish to shout Trump supporters down, simply don't understand who you are dealing with. We have had enough hypocrisy from people who don't have a clue as to who we really are and what are concerns are.

I realized I am off topic, but I feel better even if this post is deleted.

One Degree, at various times in my life I have been in economic distress. I have always been acutely aware of what I can and cannot afford in the way of medical services.

But let's admit that some people abuse medical services. Does this make it right and correct that you should do without? I don't think so. Yet most people I know on the right cannot make the jump to the obvious conclusion: free basic medical care for every citizen helps the great mass of people who are just getting by, far more than either the very poor or the very rich.

It's almost as if their fear of the malingerer trumps their protective instincts for themselves and their families. I give some reluctant credit to a few people on the alt-right who now advocate medicare-for-all; they at least recognize that privation of the average citizen is not the solution.

I can quite confidently assert that the so-called "postmodernist left" is a chimera. It is not left in any meaningful sense. It has internalized free market idolatry no less than their conservative counterparts. The only thing the fake-left brings to the table is a radical tribalist world-view. They deem it sufficiently just if a lesbian is in the board-room or a black is the CEO, irrespective of the fate of the actual workers. No one is surprised that Madeleine Albright says there is a special hell for women who don't support female candidates (read HRC) - it's all about their personal ambition.

Please understand that the right is not offering any solutions. For instance, they want to replace a fatally-flawed ACA with what amounts to basically nothing. Conveniently, nothing is what they had in mind in the first place. If Trump had actually been a real populist (a la Huey Long) I would have voted for him over HRC (I didn't vote for either). I wouldn't even begrudge him his breath-taking corruption, if he would actually help working people. He can kiss Putin's ass all he likes, I don't give a damn. What I hate is that he is doing nothing (and will continue to do nothing) for the people he promised to help.

(BTW, if you walk into a ER, you will be given the minimum treatment to stabilize you and unceremoniously ejected; you will be given a referral to a health care provider who will demand cash or insurance upfront. This happens as a matter of course. People are dying unnecessarily every day in this county from the lack of basic healthcare, and one of them may end up being you or me.)

Why is it, I wonder, that so many on the right are unable to recognize the betrayal of Trump? Certainly, the left (at least my left) has no illusions about Obama or HRC. Sabb's obsession with postmodernism is an example of pure right-wing sentimentalism. Don't expect him to give up his Dutch healthcare for the American version of social Darwinism.

[One Degree]

Enjoyed your post. I support Medicare for all. Democrats gave the poor free health care, but not the working class. They are paying their base for their support at the expense of workers who they see as Trump supporters. They advocate a ridiculous system for political reasons. What possible reason is there to provide your least productive citizens with the best medical care, and demand your opponents pay for it. I object to the Democratic liberal agenda, because it is nonsense in it's gross unfairness. I have no objections to sharing what I have with the poor, but I will not put up with continuing to supply them with more than the average citizen can afford, and then get blamed for the poor being poor. Their entire platform is a slap in the face to the people who actually do the work of our country. Just to make my outrage at the Democrats clear, if they manage to impeach Trump, I will look for a militia and I find them abhorrent. This nonsense must end. White males are not anyone's enemy.......yet.

[quetzalcoatl]

Just to make my outrage at the Democrats clear, if they manage to impeach Trump, I will look for a militia and I find them abhorrent. This nonsense must end.

Dispensing with an ineffective rightist in favor of a more effective rightist is absurd. The worst move ever would be for the Democrats to impeach Trump. In fact, the whole McResistance movement is a transparent scam. It's basic rationale is to centralize control of the Clinton faction over the Democratic Party.

I hope you will eventually extend your outrage to include Trump, and those apologists who defend his betrayal of the very working class he promised to defend.

Demand results. Ignore promises and signals of tribal loyalty - they are worthless.

[One Degree]

Dispensing with an ineffective rightist in favor of a more effective rightist is absurd. The worst move ever would be for the Democrats to impeach Trump. In fact, the whole McResistance movement is a transparent scam. It's basic rationale is to centralize control of the Clinton faction over the Democratic Party.

I hope you will eventually extend your outrage to include Trump, and those apologists who defend his betrayal of the very working class he promised to defend.

Demand results. Ignore promises and signals of tribal loyalty - they are worthless.

Good post. I am not vulnerable to tribal loyalty. I have always avoided joining any organization. Hillary and the Democrats left me no choice. Today I have been more extreme than normal because I realized very few are interested in reason. They just want you to pick a side. I was experimenting with who I will be if I am forced to choose. What else can I do when no one is listening? I absolutely agree with you about demanding results, but I see it as totally unfair to judge Trump completely with all the lies we are being fed. if the establishment had allowed him to act, then I could judge him.

[quetzalcoatl]

...I see it as totally unfair to judge Trump completely with all the lies we are being fed. :?: if the establishment had allowed him to act, then I could judge him.

My question is in what way is Trump being impeded?

Trump is President. He has a majority of both houses of the legislature. In principle, he should be able to act with authority, and propose and pass any legislation. Yet he has not even proposed one piece of legislation - only made vague statements and signed mostly meaningless executive orders. The very executive branch that executes his will is ignored - he is not filling posts with the people required to actually run the government.

Indeed, the lies we are being fed by the media and by Trump are astounding (although hardly unprecedented). But lies are no excuse for Trump's utter legislative passivity. I don't care how corrupt Trump is, but it makes no sense to excuse his inaction. And BTW, I felt the same way about Obama's passivity.

Why do people run for President if they are unwilling to exercise power? Is it just ego?

This I will say about Trump: stop being a crybaby. Make the people who are laughing at you start to fear you. Fire Rosenstein and Muller. Impound funds going to districts whose GOP representatives defy you (yeah, maybe that's unconstitutional but Nixon did it and you can too). Start a wholesale housecleaning within the CIA, NSA, and FBI. Start putting the fear of God into people. Fire McMaster and the rest of the neocon hawks. Veto the damn sanctions, and make them override your veto. Bannon wants to raise the top marginal rate to 44%; listen to him. For God's sake, dump Ivanka and Kushner.

This clown stumbled into office thinking it would be a part time gig. I have no sympathy at all.

[One Degree]

I don't find much to disagree with in your post. Trump seems to be unable to settle on who he is. He wants to be the hero but he wants to be liked for it is the best I can figure out. I agree he should not have signed the legislation. Maybe It is the tremendous pressure to stop being his 'twitter self ' and become a compromiser. He was elected despite his flaws and should bully his way through. Everyone is complaining about him not being Presidential and it would be difficult for him to dismiss their arguments, but that is exactly what he should do. He needs to go back to being his arrogant, irreverent self that got him elected.

[Potemkin]

They have the master morality, that is no morality at all (OMG I'm such a slave ).

Seriously though, maybe Nietzsche is talking about social norms and not about morality.

What we call 'morality' is simply the way we conceptualise the gap between 'is' and 'ought'. In that respect, the 'master morality' is indeed a form of morality - it prescribes the way that the superior man 'ought' to live his life. The fact that you don't approve of it is irrelevant. An adherent of the master morality would likely regard you as a thoroughly disreputable person for trying to elevate the vices of a slave into a moral system.