[Hindsite]

@ Tainari88

Conservatives do not object to allowing immigrants to come in legally to work on farms during harvest time and then go back home. The problem is that they come in illegally and will not leave and therefore put a burden on our government services.

Passing the Amnesty bill made things worse because the Democrats refused to follow through and provide suffient border security to stop the flow of illegal immigrants.

I understand that those in California are spoiled and think they deserve to be treated like the celebrates in Hollywood. But in other parts of the nation there are citizens that will take the kinds of jobs that the California blond girls wishing to be a star will refuse.

President Trump has proposed a solution to the illegal immigration problem that will actually work, but the Democrats don't want that for political reasons only. I live for the truth, You live for the lie.

[Hong Wu]

The Europeans must be panicking now that that only country in western Europe where anyone works is leaving.

I was a little surprised to read that the EU has 2x the population of the US but only equal GDP. On top of Brexit, the Swiss are likely having a Swexit referendum soon. Although they never fully joined the EU, they partially joined it and now many of them are regretting it. Switzerland is a pretty successful country by pretty much everyone's standards and it'll probably sting the virtue signalers in Brussels pretty bad if that country leaves but it doesn't seem like anyone will stick their neck out to change course.

[jimjam]

For a moment there I thought perhaps you were coming to your senses. But now I see that the bribery offer of a couple tiny kisses on the cheek is all it takes to bring out your liberal craziness again. Can't you even see that to take responsibility for anything that went off the tracks that is not one's fault is stupid? Obviously, Donald Trump is not stupid. If you want to bash a shit hole wimp, perhaps you should look to Obama.

You got me on this one HS. I had forgotten that Donald has never ever made a mistake or done anything wrong. Hence he has never ever had to take responsibility for anything that has gone wrong.

Also, I know a kiss from Tainari would be, as Donald would say, humungous, not tiny .

This part is not for you HS, it is for the public at large. ..... This exchange illustrates the basic fallacy of HS and his fellow totally brainwashed Fox Fake News lemmings ... obviously it is literally impossible for any human other than Jesus to never err, to be perfect.

[Drlee]

I agree with Hindsite that amnesty was a big mistake. That is why Reagan should never have proposed it. Of course HS blames democrats and Reagan was once a democrat. Also I note that the republicans have control of the government and can't pass a bill for the wall. Perhaps they really don't want one.

I am leaving in three minutes to go work feeding quite a number of homeless people. Over 100 I would guess. I speak Spanish. In all likelihood I will not speak it at all today.

I will play country music for the people who come to be fed and helped by the medical clinic in which I work. Mostly because they are white country folks who came to the big city for work and......oh well. HS won't believe any of this. It is WAY to complicated for his narrative.

[Godstud]

They all had their jobs stolen by illegal immigrants, Drlee!!!

[blackjack21]

So let me get this straight; California, one of America's richest states is none other than a Shithole. Someone should inform Trump.

I'm sure he already feels that way. California is a beautiful place with a lot of structural problems. Here, I'm solidly middle class. However, to purchase a house like mine, you need a good $120k in cash for a down payment for 20% down. It's probably even more now, AND that's in an exurb. Otherwise, you are subject to mortgage insurance and a higher interest rate, unless you accept a riskier 5/1 ARM loan--which is what led to the financial crisis. The so-called "working middle class" are simply priced out of the market. If you want a house like mine in the town I grew up (about 20 minutes by car), expect to be paying $1.5M or more. In San Francisco or Mountain View? $3M easily.

We have high tech workers making $80k-90k per year who live in motorhomes, because rents are astronomical.

Here in the Portland area, it is common to see lines of tents on the sidewalks downtown, along parking lots, parks, spaces between highways and roads, etc.

Portland: The Capitol of Smug. I was there for a conference last year, and overheard the typical elitist liberals complaining about the mentally ill homeless littering on the sidewalk, and there was no excuse (beyond profound depression or schizophrenia) because there was a garbage can on every corner.

Conditions in California are far better than poor "red" states. If sensationalist idiots on YouTube think California is a failed state, they haven't been to some of the Appalachian states.

The failure is one of the welfare state, the cost of living, low skilled immigrants, the alcohol and drug addicted homeless, and the mentally ill homeless. I can say that my quality of life is quite good, but it takes a lot of capital to live this way. For example, it would cost me $400 a month to heat and cool my house, as it's about 3100 sq. ft. So I have 30 solar panels on my roof, and that cuts my bill to essentially nothing from PG&E for electricity, and I simply pay $180 a month on my solar note. However, to own the panels, you essentially have to own the home--we're not talking Solar City, or some leasing scam where you don't own the panels and there is an encumbrance/easement on your roof. I have enough for a couple of more down payments on houses, so I may get into the landlord game. However, I'd like to see a firm like Petersen Dean extend my solar system with a few more panels and add a battery pack so that I can further my solar gains and tax credits. Whereas, the working class is getting fucked over by cap-and-trade and all this global warming bullshit, and they keep voting for politicians who screw them over because they don't know any better.

Being paid not to work by the welfare system leaves many people utterly destitute and dependent on the state. You just don't see native born Californians entering the lawn mowing business for example; yet, it's a cash business. You just have to hustle and work hard. I pay my gardner $140 a month, and he comes once a week. I had him do my Christmas lights this year and paid him nicely to do it. So I had him help me put stands under my washer and dryer this week. It took us about 90 minutes to get it all done and leveled up. He wouldn't charge me for it. He said, "you help me, I help you" in his broken English. That sort of working class grit is gone among the native born now. They all want a "job" with an employer and benefits. Yet immigrants who can barely speak English are living better than the typical high school grad that can speak English.

Austin has a lot of homeless. Largely because Austin in the only city in the state that offers a lot of support for homeless folks. Thus all the homeless people across the state travel here.

San Francisco is the same way. It is literally like a Charles Dickens novel in San Francisco. It is the home of the very wealthy, and up-and-coming techies. It is home to businesses like Twitter and Uber. Yet, there are homeless people everywhere. The BART escalators are caked in feces and urine. It's absolutely appalling.

Where do they go? To the states to take low paying jobs. It is the most feasible alternative for them. The American economy relies on them a lot. I had to go to almost every service industry place in this state and thousands upon thousands of people here who speak only Spanish and are Mexican and work here in jobs that the employers refuse to hire white Americans for.....the excuses they gave me for not hiring white Americans, "The white Americans are lazy. They don't show up for dishwashing jobs consistently. They are on drugs, don't want to do the job, for long. You got to pay them more. The Mexicans show up and are dependable and accept my wages and no benefits. You don't need English and skills. You need work ethic....etc. etc." They exploit them. Let us be honest.

Well, native born Americans can get paid by the government for not working. Drugs and alcohol have a lot to do with the lack of reliability, but welfare is a massive disincentive to hard work. My maid works her ass off at my house. I pay what she asks, and I usually add a tip. She also has a job at Target, which I assume is to get benefits as she certainly makes about $20 per hour cleaning houses, and probably only $12-13 at Target + withholding. I find it fascinating that American born people won't do those jobs.

The white workers who are 'available' don't want those jobs. They don't.

Nobody "wants" those jobs. They are just willing to do them if they don't have other alternatives. Welfare, phony disability claims, etc are a huge reason native born Americans won't do those jobs. Just because you got a 4-year college degree in music doesn't mean you are exempt from low wage employment. Yet, government provides them with unemployment if they can't find work in "their field."

They are good, humble, hard working, sweet, rural, down to earth people.

Many are. Most legal immigrants are good. The problem with illegal immigration is that it allows criminals to immigrate to the United States with no background check, and they end up as drug mules and muscle for the drug cartels. If they don't have resources to get here legally, they are subject to exploitation.

There are a number of issues at play in America in terms of poverty, but you'll find they all stem from greed from the Capitalists or the GOP.

The problem with this analysis is that these problems are the worst in places governed by liberal Democrats.

And the fact to question one of America's richest states in being a failure says it all for your sanity.

The gap between rich and poor is pretty medieval here. That doesn't mean that Mark Zuckerberg isn't rich, but Facebook isn't one of the companies that announced any bonuses for their employees, and neither is Google.

CA committed suicide when it passed Proposition 13 in 1978, because since then, the state constitution forces CA's state, county, and local governments to give exorbitant and relentlessly increasing subsidies to landowners. Everyone in the state will ultimately be sacrificed on the altar of landowner greed, privilege and parasitism.

That's ludicrous. California has the third highest median home value in the country behind DC, and Hawaii. The state rakes in enormous amounts of cash from California landowners. Even at an effective rate of 1%, they pay more property tax than most people in the US. I pay 1.5%, because my home is brand spanking new.

In the 40 years since Prop 13, CA has become dramatically worse in virtually every measure of good government. And it is guaranteed to keep getting worse. The forced monotonic increase in the subsidization of landowning means that everything in CA will relentlessly regress lower and lower, except one thing and one thing only: land value.

That has almost nothing to do with it. You have no such problems in Montana, Arizona, Kentucky, or North Carolina who are taxed at very similar rates. States like New Jersey and Illinois would be absolute paradise if high property taxes were some sort of panacea; they are not.

As I recall, Trump said that was the fault of a contractor that he used.

That was only a demolition crew. It was not the construction workers on the tower. That was all union labor.

So he didn't visit the building site when construction was taking place? If he knew the contractors were breaking the law, why didn't he notify the border agency? Trump is a true capitalist. Greed runs through his veins so he wasn't going to pay American workers wages for a project that was a tax dodge to begin with. He will step on his supporters if it means he'd earn a nickel. You cheerlead for a man who bleeds you dry .

Trump Tower was not built with illegal alien labor. The preceding building had about 15 illegal Polish workers who were working for a demolition contractor who sued the contractor for not paying them, which is why illegal aliens should rethink coming to the United States if they want to have standing to sue. The Polish workers here are understandable since they were fleeing communism.

Yes, yes he has. By hiring illegal migrants to fix them for him.

That's neither true nor funny.

The Obama card is not longer any good. He has been in power for over a year and the poor are getting poorer, not richer as promised.

Unemployment is going down, especially for minorities. As illegal aliens are being thrown out, Hispanic Americans are seeing their lowest unemployment rate ever.

Let's keep in mind that this is the same state that has done things like reduce knowingly giving someone HIV to a misdemeanor, pays transvestites with goat horns on their heads to read books to children, didn't repair their dam because of global warming (it promptly rained and the feds had to be called in), manspreading and incorrect pronoun use are crimes depending on where you are/where you work, the Kate Steinle verdict punished the guy for using a firearm but not for killing someone with it (not even a criminal negligence charge, yet you'd think that shooting off a gun you aren't allowed to use would be negligence per se), and this is just the stuff I can describe to non-Californians. As a Californian refugee myself, if you lived there I could share a bunch more things with you and you would only be able to nod your head.

True. It doesn't require deep analysis though. Everything the left touches turns to shit. California is not Venezuela only because Democrats like iPhones made with slave Chinese child labor more than they like marijuana.

Your hypocrisy is outstanding. Great job. So let me get this straight, it was OK for Trump to break the law because back then nobody paid much attention to illegal migrants?

Trump didn't break the law. The Polish workers and the contractor did.

Back then one person was needed to work in order to feed a family.

And then feminism was hatched by the welfare state to get women into the workforce so they could collect more taxes. That drove wages down along with trade agreements and put much more pressure on the working people of the country. GATT, NAFTA, MFN status and WTO admission for China all happened under Clinton.

And today you need santuary cities to solve this problem.

Sanctuary cities aren't a solution. They are the problem.

You cannot remove them as it is economic suicide to do so and a logistic nightmare.

I'm all for it. Why are you suddenly defending the rich people that you were trashing in previous sentences?

And if your feeling are hurt that I and the Democrats believe that people should be treated with dignity and not have their lives destroyed so you can have white neighbours then I suggest you start blaming the real people for this problem and that is the wealthy elite.

Who are ironically Democrats who want to exploit cheap labor like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, etc. Why do you attack the rich and defend them in the same sentence?

Because the little lily white blondies from Malibu and the working class white people from Imperial Beach and etc are either on drugs, don't want those bad jobs or won't be caught dead picking fruits in the hot sun.

That's fixed very easily. Provide the unemployed with bus tickets to the valley, and slash welfare. The problem fixes itself overnight when politicians stop bribing the poor with welfare so they don't have to work.

[Tainari88]

Did you read @Tainari88'a post on the importance of migrants to the US economy @Hindsite? Great piece and one of the best posts I have ever read on PoFo.

The Donald isn't going to touch them. He will keep them. He will only tell you that he will deport them. After all, he is the POTUS and if he really wanted to remove illegals, they would gone by now.

Also, be careful for what you wish for. If migrants did indeed get deported, the size of US debt of your nation and that of your citizens means in all likelyhood you'll be living in a tent or by a tent city if it occurred. The US economy is only perhaps a major economic crisis or two from implosion and complete destruction.

B0ycey, the reality is that anyone who has ever been to California and especially the San Fernando Valley, Napa Valley, Oxnard, Los Angeles and many other places in California? There are places in California that are huge majority either Asian or Latin American. In fact, I think California is heading towards majority Latino for the entire state if not very soon within the next 20 years for sure.

I am going to tell this story to Hindsite, because I think he needs to hear this. My family is Puerto Rican. On both sides, I have a lot of family that is extended family in Puerto Rico still. But the other half of the extended family is in Southern California. A series of engineers, teachers, doctors, etc. And they are Puerto Ricans with heavy accents on their English in general. I got third and second cousins and first cousins who all live still in California. Well, my parents moved to San Diego when I was about 8 years old. 1974. Later on they bought a 4 bedroom 2 bath townhouse in a Navy family stronghold in Chula Vista California. Chula Vista is a few miles from Tijuana, Baja California Norte. We would hear helicopters hovering late at night with search lights on. It would be the border patrol chasing down border jumping Mexicans at the time. One time my father heard a noise near our patio and it was a young man. Maybe 20 years old. Mexican. Scared. Hungry. My father let him in and he stayed with us for a while. My parents came up with a way to get him to Los Angeles where he had family.

I asked my father why he helped him. He said, "we go to Mexico almost every weekend. I love Mexico. I love Latin American people. We are Puerto Ricans and speak Spanish and got invaded by the USA and turned into a colony nation with no voting rights. I think the USA is unfair, unjust and these desperate Mexicans are needing jobs. I don't think capitalism is solving the problem for our people. They exploit us. I am not going to help an unjust racist little government. I am for the poor, the working class and the Latin people. Not for rich, white elitists. Never in this life."

So? Helped a whole bunch of undocumented workers and Mexican families my entire life. So did my mother, my sister, me, and a whole bunch more. In some capacity. Now? One of my kids who I helped raise and educate, who also was undocumented is all grown up and lives in the Mayan Riviera. I want to help him out now that I am retired. He is in his own nation, making a living. But he would not have survived his childhood poverty and deprivation without our help. Now? He wants us to live there with him.....he is family.

The rich, white, bible thumping, judgmental and racist as hell Americans are not my family. They are a bunch of nasty, disgusting, low life freaks who only think Latinos are rapists, killers and criminals. They can go fuck themselves as far as I am concerned. Go and live with their hate and their rage at having a capitalist system that doesn't give a fuck about immigration status---like all classic capitalistically minded systems, they only care about profit and who they can exploit and make money off of. And the fools who think they know the system they are living under and don't? Who think their ethnic cleansing schemes might work? I have news for you....your economic system doesn't have national socialist tendencies. It only worships the GREEN. Not the flag. Get used to it.

That one was for Hindsite especially.

[Crantag]

California's latest immigration law overtly breaks federal immigration law, which is presumptively superior to state law in this area: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/calif ... le/2646392

Just a reflection of the times. It would be wrong to not use any available means, in consideration of the extraordinary times.

[Godstud]

Damn foreigners! Bringing their strange ways to wholesome American sounding places like San Diego, Los Angeles, San Fernando Valley, Chula Vista, etc.!

How dare they!

[Hindsite]

That one was for Hindsite especially.

Your story was just too sad to repeat. If your father believes it is okay to help those that break American laws get away with it, then he does not make a good American, in my opinion. I have no respect for a person like that. If you and your father believe capitalism is so bad, then just go to a socialst or communist country and leave capitalism to the good old United States of America.

[Godstud]

If you can't see that humanity and compassion should over-ride thoughtless and ill-thought out laws, then it's you, @Hindsite who is lost.

Remember, Jesus was a rebel. He'd have helped illegal immigrants.

[fuser]

OP has no idea what third world nations are like......

[Godstud]

The OP has not travelled beyond the limits of his own country. That much is obvious.

[Igor Antunov]

Well I can attest to the fact that Los Angeles at least has worse roads, traffic, crime and homeless problem than most third tier cities in China. But there are some really nice gated communities there also. Take the good with the bad. It's certainly a mess of a city.

I'm sure things are nicer out of town and I haven't been to San Francisco.

[Drlee]

Your story was just too sad to repeat. If your father believes it is okay to help those that break American laws get away with it, then he does not make a good American, in my opinion. I have no respect for a person like that. If you and your father believe capitalism is so bad, then just go to a socialst or communist country and leave capitalism to the good old United States of America.

There is something that people who are in favor of booting illegals from this country simply are not smart enough to understand. It is this:

They endlessly carp about illegals "taking our jobs and driving down wages". Both of these are true. Illegals do take jobs that American citizens could do and they do it by accepting lower wages than Americans are likely to accept. But what they are not smart enough to understand is where the fault lies. It is not with the illegals. Sure they crossed the border without papers to get a job to support themselves and their families. No one is denying that. But the overarching reason that they did it is because there were Americans on this side of the border clamoring for them to come. The criminal Americans are called "employers". When Mr. Morales, who is willing to work as a carpenter for $10.00 an hour takes the job of Mr. Jones who is currently working for $20.00 an hour, the culprit is the employer who fired Jones and hired Morales. This is not rocket science.

The republican party has successfully convinced these not-so-smart people into believing that the problem is Morales. It most decidedly is not. I could stop illegal immigration tomorrow and cause many of the illegals in the country to self-deport for a tiny fraction of what we would spend on a wall. Two things only. First we require a robust e-verify system for employment. The second is that we send about 10% of our border patrol agents into businesses and arrest employers who are willfully employing illegal aliens. A few months of that and the problem will be solved.

So why don't we? There could only be one answer. The republicans and democrats who are employing these people do not want us to and are using their political influence to prevent it. There is absolutely no other possible reason. So Hindsite. The reason there are illegals in the US taking jobs from workers and driving down wages, is because there are republican businessmen who will willingly hire them and who will give congressmen money to stop them from solving the problem.

[Godstud]

Bravo, Drlee. Once again you have to state the obvious for people who just can't see it.

If illegal immigrants could not find work int he USA, they would not come to the USA. Since employers are employing the illegal immigrants, they have a reason to come. No employment chance means they won't. It's that simple.

[Tainari88]

Your story was just too sad to repeat. If your father believes it is okay to help those that break American laws get away with it, then he does not make a good American, in my opinion. I have no respect for a person like that. If you and your father believe capitalism is so bad, then just go to a socialst or communist country and leave capitalism to the good old United States of America.

But Hindsite, he is Puerto Rican. How can he be a good American oh Wise Hindsite? Lol.

I don't give a damn about how little respect you have for my father. You should fear your God in the pearly gates...examining your behavior on Earth, spouting 'hallelujah' and doing hate filled crap, like hating on poor people, backing nasty politicians full of lies and deceit and thinking you are doing Christian things when in reality your behavior is more in keeping with some Demon from down below.

Dialogue between God and Hindsite:

Hindsite has expired in some Texas hospital. His eternal soul departs from his earth bound body:

He enters the entrance to the pearly gates, he meets God, a man, of course, and He needs to be a straight man, but might be a White Light, can't be a Black Light, and God asks,

"Hindsite.....what did you do to honor me on Earth?"

Hindsite: I believed in capitalism. A system that is about property. Some people had property and others did not have any property and in order to survive in such a system, the ones without property, sold their labor to the ones who did have property to live and pay their bills. They never made enough to have credit to open their own business and never had property in their name. They were the workers, and when they got hungry and could not find work, they jumped the border. Into MY SPACE. As a good Christian I knew they were breaking the law and they are inferior too..."

GOD: Do you seriously think I cared about all that Hindsite? Didn't you read in your bible that I am about love and eternal souls. All souls. And that money and property are not the most important reason I want my believers to believe in me. How did you get so lost Hindsite? Didn't you believe that I created the Mexicans and the people you call illegal with my own two hands? The same as I created the heavens and Earth and I proclaimed let there be light? So if I created the Mexicans then why were you more worried about your invasion of space and mundane laws and worried about keeping them from being hired? Didn't you care about their eternal souls?'

Hindsite: But how about them taking jobs from real Americans and from the good people because we know they are not the same as we are....

GOD: Hindsite, I am afraid you need to go back to Texas. But first I think you need to be born in Mexico first. Very very poor and with parents who get thrown off their ejido and struggle. I think you need to go back and experience being a Mexican that is desperate enough to jump the border to survive....I think a good name for you would be Juan Manuel Barajas....Born October 11, 2018. See you in eighty years and see if you make it back to the Pearly Gates a little wiser.....Adios, Amigo. Until you understand how we are all human and have the same needs and until you realize capitalism is not about spirituality but the realm of Lucifer.....you are going to have to go back.

Vaya con Dios my darling.....Vaya con Dios....

[Hong Wu]

Drlee pretends this is an issue of racism and not an issue of controlled vs. open borders, when the actual actions of liberal politicians in positions of power has lately been to promote "sanctuary" for convicted criminals which is just a euphemism for open borders.

Controlling the border is easier than controlling under the table hiring and payments. Once supply of foreign labor is under control it might be fair to discuss racism, such as if someone does something that could be considered racist (wanting to control a nation's border not necessarily being racist).

[B0ycey]

Do people believe there be borders in heaven? I find it quite ironic that Christians will fight for them on Earth when apparently we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord.

Wealth clouds judgement. It also gives false entitlement. I have never known anyone pick and choose what is acceptable biblical dogma or not than Hindsite. For someone who claims the bible speaks the truth and is indeed factual evidence, he sure doesn't adhere to any of the bible's messages.

[Igor Antunov]

If illegal immigrants could not find work int he USA, they would not come to the USA. Since employers are employing the illegal immigrants, they have a reason to come. No employment chance means they won't.

So...you support illegal, unregulated slave labor at $3/hour? How leftist of you.