[FreeStyle]

And why would I lie about that? Just my own simple observation.....

Well, calm down.... you see, I am living here in China and I am only pointing out this simple truth that nobody is truly loyal to any political organization in China nowadays.

Think twice before you try bluffing next time.

[Godstud]

I spoke to a couple Chinese solar engineers some time ago and they were really really negative about China. I think they are loyal when they are within ear-shot of anyone who could make trouble for them.

[benpenguin]

You see, I am living here in China and I am only pointing out this simple truth that nobody is truly loyal to any political organization in China nowadays.

I know you are Chinese. You just made a bunch of replies to a few Chinese threads with a tone that I have seen all too many times, so I suppose I should just make a catch-all copypasta for it and get a headstart for my all-too-repetitive response.

While I do know quite a number of "Firecely loyal" people (Who will basically fight me to the death if I am saying anything bad about China/CCP), I suppose the description is overstretching it, as most people are not political at all. Most people I know are "okay / positive" with how things are doing, which is more than what I can say many countries.

For example, you can probably notice, further to the north, the more fierce people are in their nationalism, at times a little silly / barbaric - you know, the bunch who burns Japanese cars. Most middle class people are also quite patriotic (especially if they haven't got relatives murdered in the cultural revolution). Down south people are a lot more cynical to authority and I have also known a load of "west = good, china = bad" liberals (I live in Guangzhou). China is a very big place with varied and polarized opinions.

So to answer both of you, fuser and freestyle, yes - we have no lack of liberals who hate the government (or standard losers who blame their own woes to society), but we also have plenty of firece patriots. My point is I think the CCP's support base is larger than enough to be "legitamate", and that has very little to do with army strength.

[Igor Antunov]

I spoke to a couple Chinese solar engineers some time ago and they were really really negative about China. I think they are loyal when they are within ear-shot of anyone who could make trouble for them.

I have to chime in here because this is one of the biggest misconceptions foreigners have about mainland Chinese. You're mistaking a cultural trait with the concept of national loyalty. Complaining/Criticizing is a full time hobby if you're raised on the mainland. The more widespread and paramount something is, the more criticism it receives on a daily basis. Among the general populace, criticism of all things is constant and unrelenting.

I met a middle aged Chinese man outside of a 7-eleven who could speak broken English in Xi'An. After shitting on the CPC for 20 minutes, on a bunch of etiquette police lurking around a car park nearby, etc he proceeded to shit on the US and it's imperialism toward china and its inevitable demise at the hands of the chinese nation, on the insolent rebellious Japanese and Vietnamese. But he liked the Koreans whom he deemed a Chinese ethnic group, as he had the Vietnamese and Japanese. He also emulated a Rei and started talking about Russia in the context of it being China's resource bitch.

Simply put they have big mouths and will mouth off at anything, especially if they have a target audience that might agree in some way or a target physical object to burn down or destroy. Such criticism is healthy. The west trumpets free speech yet its populace are plump, calorie addled drones. There is zero militancy or conviction in our discourse on the big issues here. Maybe the occasional debate on tv or a lazy, orderly rally in some park. That's where conviction ends. For typical Chinese it ends with the burning down of their protest target or the ousting of a city mayor and his entire police department. That's not self-loathing, disloyalty to the state, etc. That's what is expected on a grass-roots level. Naturally with all things, you can go too far. Exercise self-determination in moderation. As for us westerners-exercise self-determination in any way, at all, please, fucking get off the couch/grandstand and give meaning to tired symbolism. Voting for corporate puppets isn't it.

I look at the protests in Greece and I see a bunch of disorganized young men throwing molotovs at police barricades. Noble effort but futile. Direct your energy at something more direct.

[FreeStyle]

So to answer both of you, fuser and freestyle, yes - we have no lack of liberals who hate the government (or standard losers who blame their own woes to society), but we also have plenty of firece patriots. My point is I think the CCP's support base is larger than enough to be "legitamate", and that has very little to do with army strength.

Yes, "fierce patriots", thugs with violence that the ccp is making use of. PLA is also with violence, what a coincidence.
Nobody is supporting CCP in China nowadays. Chinese people are too much tamed by the system and are willing to bear more "cost" in exchange for the "peacefulness". Guess who is the one to establish this system?

[BritinChina]

Nobody is supporting CCP in China nowadays.

That's not my experience from living here. The CCP is still incredibly popular with the working classes and even with the professional Middle Classes the CCP is generally seen with respect.