How do the Chinese see themselves? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues in the People's Republic of China.

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#15154347
Potemkin wrote:
17x17? Why not 19x19? The standard board sizes are 9x9, 13x13 and 19x19. In ancient China, only the 19x19 board size was used.



I like shorter games...

I have a confession to make, I make most of my moves quickly, and take the dumb mistakes back. The downside is when I get tired, it's like walking into a buzzsaw.

Anyway, it's free, try it. It's ferocious.

I haven't done this in a long time, you can have as large a handicap as you want. You can have 20 stones if you want, although the game distributes them and it often clumps them together.

https://www.sjeng.org/leela.html
#15154350
late wrote:I like shorter games...

I have a confession to make, I make most of my moves quickly, and take the dumb mistakes back. The downside is when I get tired, it's like walking into a buzzsaw.

Anyway, it's free, try it. It's ferocious.

I haven't done this in a long time, you can have as large a handicap as you want. You can have 20 stones if you want, although the game distributes them and it often clumps them together.

https://www.sjeng.org/leela.html

Lol. I'm a long-time player of Go myself. My rating is 2 kyu (amateur). Go (weiqi) is the greatest board game in the world; nothing else comes close. And it's worth noting that computers became good at chess long before they became good at Go.

I use Leela myself. I like the implied pun in the program's name - Leela is the one-eyed alien character from Futurama. And one of the basic strategies in Go is to avoid having only one eye.... Lol. :D
#15154352
Potemkin wrote:
I use Leela myself. I like the implied pun in the program's name - Leela is the one-eyed alien character from Futurama. And one of the basic strategies in Go is to avoid having only one eye.... Lol. :D



Nice catch! I like Futurama, too, it never occurred to me.

Do you take a handicap against it?
#15154353
late wrote:Nice catch! I like Futurama, too, it never occurred to me.

Do you take a handicap against it?

No, the program is more or less the same strength I am. Which is nice. Lol. :)
#15154555
Crantag wrote:I watched these videos, and the second one was quite good. The part I found most enjoyable was from 46:25.

However, the bit I found most relevant was the bit about Confucianism. Confucianism is basically ancient fascism, and is the predominant philosophy of East Asian countries, including Japan, the two Koreas, the multiple Chinas, etc. Confucianism is a very powerful ideology, and it is quintessentially authoritarian, but it gets a pass for being ancient. And, I would wager that most people reading these words have no idea about confucianism (and I myself have only a very superficial knowledge).

I had been meaning to post here to illuminate this point.

And by the way, I'm tepidly pro China, might as well throw that out there, and I lived in China for 2 years (I also lived in Tokyo for 7 years, and I lived in Seoul for a paltry 3 months along the way).

How does one even begin to grasp such a different culture? Is there no other way than trying to live it and have it translated imperfectly?
#15154558
Wellsy wrote:How does one even begin to grasp such a different culture? Is there no other way than trying to live it and have it translated imperfectly?

I don't know what you are asking.

Confucianism is pretty simple. There is an authority figure everywhere. There is the one with the higher rank. Someone older than you is superior. That is reflected in superiority in terms of corporate positions and stuff. The children are subordinate to the parents. The wife is subordinate to the husband. The husband/father is subordinate to his boss, and the mayor, and the national leader. His boss is subordinate to the mayor, etc. etc. Like that.

This is the governing culture in Korea, China, Japan. With this covid shit, I about yelled at the radio every time thy compared South Korea and New Zealand to the US or Europe, and then in the same breath contrasted South Korea to China (mentioning 'ideology'). The one is Confucian, like China (e.g., same ideology, really), and the other, is a fucking island.
#15154569
Unthinking Majority wrote:China doesn't have the view of individual liberty, they have the view that Chinese society operates like a hive where ultimately all work for the good of the Chinese nation where sometimes sacrifices have to be made.


Correct - with one key exception - the President who recently crowned himself dictator for life.

Despite its human rights issues, for decades the leadership of China came across as rather benign and surprisingly conciliatory - both internally and externally. There really was a sense of what you just described - a "we're all in this together" feeling of solidarity between the leadership and the people. Especially considering the structure of the leadership - quite decentralised (within the politburo of course - but which nonetheless is massive) with many restraints and checks on the office of President.

Not now though. Within a few short years, President Xi has completely transformed China from a sort of reasonable oligarchy, to an absolute autocracy - with all the ruthlessness and oppression that comes with it. This obviously has significant implications not only for the citizens of China in how they see themselves, but also for China's (by which this now means Xi alone) attitude and perspective to the rest of the world. And its frankly looking pretty alarming - like bullying of trade partners, naked military aggression in the South China Sea, ramping up the threats to Taiwan.
#15154592
Confucianism is really interesting. Korean Air requires its pilots to speak English at all times whilst in the cockpit. This policy was introduced after a plane crash in which the co-pilot failed to correct a mistake the pilot made because he lacked the confidence to contradict his superior.

I was surprised at how many homeless people there are in Japan but it makes sense when you realise these people have slipped out of the social structures Confucianism creates. Their employers aren't responsible for housing them because they have no employers and society and the gov't don't feel any responsiblity towards them either. I feel this also contributes to the size and success of the Yakuza. People prefer to exist within an institution that provides structure rather than float through life independently.
#15154594
AFAIK wrote:Confucianism is really interesting. Korean Air requires its pilots to speak English at all times whilst in the cockpit. This policy was introduced after a plane crash in which the co-pilot failed to correct a mistake the pilot made because he lacked the confidence to contradict his superior.

I was surprised at how many homeless people there are in Japan but it makes sense when you realise these people have slipped out of the social structures Confucianism creates. Their employers aren't responsible for housing them because they have no employers and society and the gov't don't feel any responsiblity towards them either. I feel this also contributes to the size and success of the Yakuza. People prefer to exist within an institution that provides structure rather than float through life independently.


Well said, dude.

There were a fair number of homeless people in Tokyo (not as many relative to population, it seems, as here in Oregon, by a long shot), but yeah I hear your points, good observations.
#15154600
Well I wasn't expecting to see any homeless after reading about jobs for life and CEOs taking huge pay cuts to avoid making redundancies. I thought that level of consideration would extend throughout society.

In the UK the only people who slept rough when I was growing up did so by choice since the welfare state would provide a bed in a hostel for anyone in need. (Homelessness and rough sleeping increased significantly under Cameron though.)
#15154619
Fasces wrote:This is not true. Hong Kong has 1 major problem. It is no longer special. With every passing year, as China develops, it regresses into becoming just any old city. There is nothing unique or special about Hong Kong that means it will be a paramount city of privilege for all eternity. It benefited from unique circumstances for a unique period of time that is in the past, and never coming back. Hong Kong's problems stem from the local elite and the local populace stubbornly refusing to accept this fact.

The simple truth is that China is not any more authoritarian in any meaningful sense than Colonial Britain was, or Hong Kong's transitional authority is, and life in Hong Kong is not that different than any other tier 1 or tier 2 Chinese city beyond an inflated sense of self-importance - though even Shanghai and Beijing have that.


You seem to take life in a very materialistic view and downplay the atrocities China has done.

China has banned calls for more accountability for the government and the police, and even made arrests against people being active for that. You seem not wanting to recognize that or try to equate that to whatever had done by the British.

It's stupid to say the British had not done this before, but they grew away from it. In contrast, and as you said, China actively tries make that return. And with their records of arresting dissidents and persecuting the general populace still ongoing, are you actually expecting us to accept this?

Hong Kong is not important in that sense, we just want to live our free lives un-pestered.

P.S. Admittedly I don't expect my words to be listened by someone apparently being part of the aggressors.
#15155018
Britain only reformed its colonial administration after it had agreed to the hand over as a hopeful way to liberalize China. These reforms were mal-intentioned and transparently so. You can like the result regardless, but I don't think these reforms would have taken place without the handover agreement.
#15162054
@Wellsy, automation can address shortfalls in labor force, and immigration from the Global South to China has been steadily increasing. A demographic issue is a solvable problem - many Western states have solved it, and many Western states have birth rates below China.
#15162437
Fasces wrote:Britain only reformed its colonial administration after it had agreed to the hand over as a hopeful way to liberalize China. These reforms were mal-intentioned and transparently so. You can like the result regardless, but I don't think these reforms would have taken place without the handover agreement.


So what? It is still China's fault for not diffusing it properly.

A liberalized China is the final solution of the Hong Kong problem -- I mean by then it is totally OK for Hong Kong to revert to the small fishing village it used to be.
#15162679
^ CCP absolutely wants to dominate the world but what many don't know is that CCP is but just a front of the dreaded COBRA but we should fear not for GI Joe is on the hot pursuit and soon there will be *phew phew* *boom boom* and Cobra will bite the dust again.
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