[Rugoz]

If being consistently flat at 5-8% GDP growth annually is a problem, I'd hate to be a citizen of the US, Germany, Japan or others - which are also flat, at a rate much closer to zero.

If China's in danger to collapse because of a mere 5% GDP growth this year, France must in the midst of a Civil War.

Jesus, thick as a brick. I was talking about the business cycle. There's no volatility in the growth rate in those years. That doesn't mean it's fake. It was a joke.

Anybody that dares challenge western hegemony is "worse", regardless of the facts. Deng said that China needed to bide its time and build up. It did. It has. It's awake now.

The man in the chair doesn't matter - if it were Bo Xilai we'd be lamenting that Xi was never elected. Their biggest crime is always the audacity to challenge Western hegemony.

Xi is a boon to Western hegemony. China will pay dearly for his personal ambition at some point in the future, I'm pretty certain of that.

Seems to me that Western media has a severe credibility problem then. Why should I trust anything they say?

And open one of the articles - they're not exaggerating the actual contents.

Some exaggerated headlines you posted cause a "severe credibility" problem? Wtf?

Chinese authorities release data every year. The 2020 data is available online. So do international organizations.

Feel free to provide a source. If they don't have it: https://wid.world/, I don't think anybody else has.

The fact is that when data contradicts the hysteria, you lot choose to commit to the hysteria. You're no different in that regard to the Q fanatics, antivaxxers, or climate skeptics.

[Fasces]

xi is a boon to Western hegemony. China will pay dearly for his personal ambition at some point in the future, I'm pretty certain of that

I don't doubt the sincerity of your beliefs. I am only commenting on how vacuous and baseless they are.

Feel free to provide a source. If they don't have it: https://wid.world/, I don't think anybody else has.

What specific statistical measure are you looking for to measure "inequality" , so we don't bounce a hundred documents back and forth with you claiming "no not that one!"

Some exaggerated headlines you posted cause a "severe credibility" problem? Wtf?

I've given you the name of the article, the year it was published, and the periodical it was published in. If you don't know how to use Google at such a basic level, I can't help you. Read the articles. The headlines aren't exaggerated.

[Crantag]

It is the new pofo trend, is it, to compare contemporary China to Nazi Germany.

That is a dipshit thing to do. It is funny, the loudest voices about China are the people that know the least about it.

It is fair game to criticize China, we can do it all day long, it is noxious though when it comes from a standpoint of ignorance, which it will do, as a matter of course.

A word of advice. Propaganda will not inform intelligence.

And, my family members either fled Austria, or were exterminated. I have read the letters and the diaries. It is not light reading.

Contemporary China is no comparison.

[Rugoz]

I don't doubt the sincerity of your beliefs. I am only commenting on how vacuous and baseless they are.

Baseless? It's simply history repeating itself.

What specific statistical measure are you looking for to measure "inequality" , so we don't bounce a hundred documents back and forth with you claiming "no not that one!"

Incomes shares, top 1%, top 10%, bottom 50%. Including taxes and transfers. I you can put that together you can write a paper a get a few 100 citations.

It is the new pofo trend, is it, to compare contemporary China to Nazi Germany.

You people should learn to read.

[Crantag]

You people should learn to read.

You, person, should learn to think for yourself. You constantly just spit propaganda bullshit.

[Rugoz]

You, person, should learn to think for yourself. You constantly just spit propaganda bullshit.

Bullshit.

[Crantag]

Bullshit.

You are a reliable person to chat shit on which you don't even know, when it comes to topics of anti China. Just like @late .

The cold hard truth of the matter, is you guys don't know what the fuck you are talking about, and are pretty much just idiotic when it comes to this topic.

[Rugoz]

You are a reliable person to chat shit on which you don't even know, when it comes to topics of anti China. Just like @late .

The cold hard truth of the matter, is you guys don't know what the fuck you are talking about, and are pretty much just idiotic when it comes to this topic.

What I read about China is usually written by academics who have studied China for decades. But of course you of all people know better.

[JohnRawls]

The top post on Weibo today, with tens of thousands of comments, is a news story about how a pregnant woman went into early labor in Christian and was denied access to a hospital for not having a negative covid test on hand. The comments are vicious - thoroughly criticizing the Christian government for their failure in organizing the lock down, bringing up supply issues such as a lack of menstrual pads for women (big story from yesterday), slowdown in food deliveraries, and so on.

It is not as black and white as you're implying and there is room for criticism of the government in China. The CPC is not a pluralistic organization, but to argue so confidently about the speech of a people you don't read, can't read, and can't even be assed to visit their social media sites to translate is disturbed and dehumanizing. You know absolutely nothing about the status of speech within China because you haven't cared to have a half decent conversation with an actual Chinese national living there.



If being consistently flat at 5-8% GDP growth annually is a problem, I'd hate to be a citizen of the US, Germany, Japan or others - which are also flat, at a rate much closer to zero.

If China's in danger to collapse because of a mere 5% GDP growth this year, France must in the midst of a Civil War.



Anybody that dares challenge western hegemony is "worse", regardless of the facts. Deng said that China needed to bide its time and build up. It did. It has. It's awake now.

The man in the chair doesn't matter - if it were Bo Xilai we'd be lamenting that Xi was never elected. Their biggest crime is always the audacity to challenge Western hegemony.



Seems to me that Western media has a severe credibility problem then. Why should I trust anything they say?

And open one of the articles - they're not exaggerating the actual contents.



Chinese authorities release data every year. The 2020 data is available online. So do international organizations.

The fact is that when data contradicts the hysteria, you lot choose to commit to the hysteria. You're no different in that regard to the Q fanatics, antivaxxers, or climate skeptics.



The absolute irony of this shit coming from you.

Cool story of minimum wrong doing by some local hospital is critisism of policy or the CCP in your mind?

That is a barely relevant topic in the greater scheme of things. Why not talk about CCP violating its international obligations that it signed up to over Hong KOng and destroying one state two systems model? Why not talk about the cruelty against Uyghurs? Why not talk about Taiwan NOT WANTING reunification anymore after what happened in Hong Kong although in the 90s it was a clear possibility if China liberalised? Why not talk about the downsides of the Xis policy against culture, economy, etc? I am not even talking about very hard topics like human rights here which is even more radical conversation. Just about every important topic is "Verboten" in China and you have to follow the party line without party having any supervision over it. The list can be endless here and expanding depending on what CCP will consider appropriate.

The reason for that is as always the core principles that the regime exists on: Liberal Democracy accepts that no consensus can be reached on many core issues in any society and we try to work around it by at least preventing conflict based on those disagreements by human rights/Inalienable rights, tolerance and the state being a watchmen while Communist or Dictatorial regimes think that they can brainwash or force all of the population to believe in one idea. While brainwashing can be effective to a certain degree, it is not something that is effective forever nor has it ever worked over a long period of time. This subject is very complicated and interesting because this is the root of many economic and societal problems in communist and dictatorial countries and also Liberal Democracy itself.

In a more philosophical way perhaps this is a question of stability vs liberty and prosperity but the situation is not that clear cut. The acceptance that consensus can't be reached on many basic questions means that you need to accept that certain instability will always exist and then create a system that survives and flourishes in that instability. I fully accept that not all societies can accept this at certain points of their existence but it doesn't mean that it will be like that all the time nor does it mean that there are no supremely stable Liberal Democracies but that requires a very well developed system. If your society craves stability then Dictatorial system is perhaps a better choice if you are just starting to rebuild a state but people need to be aware that this is a choice with MANY downsides where you sacrifice a lot for that stability. Long term Liberal Democracy also becomes stable with ups and downs, look at Belgium or Netherlands for an example or US at certain points of time. In many cases Liberal Democracy doesn't even require high leadership, parliament or prime minister to function without any issues.

[late]

The fact is that when data contradicts the hysteria, you lot choose to commit to the hysteria. You're no different in that regard to the Q fanatics, antivaxxers, or climate skeptics.

The China fan boy has spoken.

Nothing substantive, of course, but did you actually expect something relevant?

[Godstud]

@late Fasces LIVES in China. maybe you should fucking listen to him for a change instead of being a propaganda mouthpiece. Nothing you have said has substance.

[late]

[usermention=41202]

@late[/usermention] Fasces LIVES in China.

maybe you should fucking listen to him for a change instead of being a propaganda mouthpiece.

Nothing you have said has substance.

I know.

Hardly that simple, my friend.

That is wildly incorrect. The thing economists are most afraid of is deflation. Japan hit the wall so hard they got deflation. The Asian model of development has...issues. China has backed itself between a rock and a hard place.

China has a immense water supply problem. That has brought down civilisations, and their response so far has been inadequate.

[Crantag]

What I read about China is usually written by academics who have studied China for decades. But of course you of all people know better.

At most what you read confirms your biases. But you have lacked references, if you truly do base your posts on academic studies. You are clearly very biased. I don't know why exactly.

I lived in China for 2 years and I lived in East Asia for 10. I speak Chinese and Japanese. So, I do know a little bit.

[Rugoz]

At most what you read confirms your biases. But you have lacked references, if you truly do base your posts on academic studies. You are clearly very biased. I don't know why exactly.

I lived in China for 2 years and I lived in East Asia for 10. I speak Chinese and Japanese. So, I do know a little bit.

What biased thing did I even say in this thread? That Xi is bad for China? That's my opinion based on what Xi has done so far, in particular institutionally.

[Crantag]

What biased thing did I even say in this thread? That Xi is bad for China? That's my opinion based on what Xi has done so far, in particular institutionally.

Your glasses are pretty tinted. You and @late both are pretty reliably anti-China. That's cool and all, but you seem to come from a standpoint of bias, so at least to this one man, it negatively affects your credibility.

I'm not going to go reread all your posts, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Just calling it as I see it.

I'm fairly neutral on Xi, but I sort of lean toward he has actually done quite well. He has struck me as an effective leader, quite frankly.

[Fasces]

Incomes shares, top 1%, top 10%, bottom 50%. Including taxes and transfers. I you can put that together you can write a paper a get a few 100 citations.

The National Bureau of Statistics provides this information quarterly, including a breakdown of household income, disposable income, tax burden, and Gini coefficient.

Peruse at your leisure - sections 4 and 6.

http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/Statist ... nnualData/

That is a barely relevant topic in the greater scheme of things. Why not talk about CCP violating its international obligations that it signed up to over Hong KOng and destroying one state two systems model? Why not talk about the cruelty against Uyghurs? Why not talk about Taiwan NOT WANTING reunification anymore after what happened in Hong Kong although in the 90s it was a clear possibility if China liberalised?

To be frank - because Chinese people don't care. There were criticisms against CPC policy on the Hong Kong protests: asking why the PLA didn't just roll in tanks and end the spoiled brats immediately. There are public questions about Xinjiang: asking the CPC why they bother coddling Muslims and why, with so many terrorists in the region anyway, are the CPC importing Pakistani students to universities by the boatload? Even some of my Chinese friends that are feminist, anti-Xi, pro-liberal, pro-capitalist can make some offhand remarks that would make MAGA redhat chauvanists blush. They are not pro-Western, and neither would a liberal democratic China be pro-Western.

You confuse your system of values with a universal system of values. Most Chinese people overwhelmingly support, and most importantly, trust their government - even Western polling organizations like Pew realize this - so their criticism is mainly rooted in minor things you consider to be inconsequential: but the criticism does remain. China has tens of thousands of protests annually, a world leader in them in actuality - but they're all regarding issues the Chinese themselves consider actually important and practical, and which you dismiss as minor and meaningless.

Fundamentally, to most Chinese, the question of "freedom of the press" is far more insignificant and meaningless than organizing a protest regarding air quality, or preventing a new power relay from going up in their community. This is something you would understand if you would ever even try to communicate honestly with Chinese people - you claim to understand and speak to their needs but refuse this simple step of engagement.

Why not talk about the downsides of the Xis policy against culture, economy, etc?

They do. Shit like the ban on tattoos, limits on video games or the anti "femboy" crap gets laughed out of the room as the backwards ideology of some conservative Cultural Revolution septagenerians in Beijing. The citizens don't care and the local government rarely bothers to enforce it, and when they do, it is criticized. Aspects of economic policy that concern Chinese, like the arbitrary nature of the Chinese stock market or the ban on tutor education is actively mocked and criticized in private and on Chinese social media.

Get off your high horse and go actually talk to these people you claim to speak for.

[Rugoz]

Your glasses are pretty tinted. You and @late both are pretty reliably anti-China. That's cool and all, but you seem to come from a standpoint of bias, so at least to this one man, it negatively affects your credibility.

My view on China or any other country doesn't affect my credibility. Posting bullshit would affect my credibility. I don't post bullshit.

The National Bureau of Statistics provides this information quarterly, including a breakdown of household income, disposable income, tax burden, and Gini coefficient.

Peruse at your leisure - sections 4 and 6.

http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/Statist ... nnualData/

Feel free to provide a link to the data. Cannot find either income shares or in fact Gini on that site.

[Fasces]

You don't know how to navigate a sidebar or something?

1. Click on 2019, on the link I provided.

2. Scroll down the sidebar to chapter 6. Click on 6-2, disposable income by income quintile. The rest of chapter 6 has breakdowns by province, region, and urban/rural divide. There are also breakdowns available by gender, elsewhere.

3. Scroll down the sidebar to chapter 1. Click on 1-4, indicators of national economic and social development. The Gini Coefficient is specifically labelled.

Chinese authorities release data every year. The 2020 data is available online. So do international organizations.

Source please.

Can we now agree that Chinese authorities, through the National Bureau of Statistics, releases this data every year?

If you click on press releases you can search for the pre-release link to the 2020 figures.

[Rugoz]

:eh: You don't know how to navigate a sidebar or something?

1. Click on 2019, on the link I provided.

2. Scroll down the sidebar to chapter 6. Click on 6-2, disposable income by income quintile. The rest of chapter 6 has breakdowns by province, region, and urban/rural divide. There are also breakdowns available by gender, elsewhere.

3. Scroll down the sidebar to chapter 1. Click on 1-4, indicators of national economic and social development. The Gini Coefficient is specifically labelled.

Can we now agree that Chinese authorities, through the National Bureau of Statistics, releases this data every year?

If you click on press releases you can search for the pre-release link to the 2020 figures.

Jeez, they should work on that website.

I was looking for top 1%/10% shares but I suppose income quintiles are something.

[Fasces]

It's China. Their internet UI is... Unique.