[Puffer Fish]

This story is from 2018.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 56031.html

Authorities demolished a well-known Christian megachurch. Witnesses and overseas activists said the paramilitary People's Armed Police used dynamite and excavators to destroy the Golden Lampstand Church, which has a congregation of more than 50,000, in the city of Linfen in Shanxi province. Local authorities planted explosives in an underground worship hall to demolish it.

The building had been constructed with nearly $2.6 million in contributions from local worshippers in one of China's poorest regions.

The official reason given for the demolition was that the building had been constructed 9 years ago on farmland without the necessary permits, and under Chinese law all religious groups must register with local religious affairs authorities, which had not been done. (The likely reason it had not been done is because the local authorities wouldn't give their approval) There was a permit for construction on the land, but it was a permit for construction of a warehouse, not a church.

Freedom of religion is theoretically guaranteed under China's constitution, but local authorities often resort to the use of technicalities to attack unregistered churches. Charges of land or building violations and disturbing the peace are among the most common.

The government wants people of religious faiths to worship in state-sanctioned assemblies, some argue because it wants to keep a tighter control over religion and is concerned about formation of independent organizations of people forming in the society, which could potentially challenge the government or lead to "social disharmony".

Several leaders of the church had already been given prison sentences up to seven years for charges of illegally occupying farmland and disturbing traffic order, according to Chinese state media.


Skip to 8:25 in the video to hear about Chinese authorities keeping a close eye on foreign journalists coming to do an investigative documentary on Christianity in China. Almost like a Soviet-style police state.

Christianity Is On The Rise In China

[Godstud]

Good for China. Megachurches absolutely nothing to do with actual Christianity. They are scam centers designed to exploit belief and faith of religious people.

[Rich]

Good for China. Megachurches absolutely nothing to do with actual Christianity. They are scam centers designed to exploit belief and faith of religious people.

I don't believe that Jesus existed. I don't believe that James, John, Cephas and the other leaders of the Jerusalem church were former companions of a historical Jesus who had been active in the 20's / 30s AD. I believe that "James brother of the Lord" was a spiritual title, rather than indicating that James was the literal brother of a flesh and blood Jesus. But by what ever means "The three pillars" acquired their authority, those guys seemed to be running a hell of a racket. These Mega Churches seem to a thoroughly authentic imagining of the proto Christian Church.

Free Speech must mean the freedom to say / write and listen to / read things that are untrue, offensive and hateful. The demands of fascists always is that they must determine what is true, inoffensive and kind. This was the argument the Nazis used for the extermination of the Jews. Genocide being the ultimate method for restricting free speech. The Nazis argued (internally for extermination, but openly for less extreme measures) that the Jews must be exterminated in order to stop them spreading lies, causing offense and furthering their supposed hate agenda against the Aryans.

[Puffer Fish]

Why am I not surprised that in such a Left-leaning forum, several members approve of what the Communist "People's Republic" of China is doing.

[Godstud]

@Puffer Fish Who said we agreed with it? Iam merely saying that these Megachurches are NOT Christian. They are scams. Scams should be stopped.

How is supporting the law(as I mostly do) considered "left wing"? Are you off your meds?

This forum is hardly left-leaning. Either that or you are blind, and consider centrists to be "Left".

[AFAIK]

A more interesting story is the relationship between Beijing and The Vatican but if you want my opinion on the destruction of a building constructed without planning permission- meh, what did you expect?

[Fasces]

[Rich]

I am merely saying that these Megachurches are NOT Christian. They are scams. Scams should be stopped.

Christianity was a racket from the start. Its pretty clear if you read the letters of Paul that he disapproves of the Jerusalem Church leaders, use of Church funds. The early Christian church was one of many mystery religion rackets operating within the Roman Empire. Why do people imagine that ancient cults had any more integrity than modern ones like the Church of Scientology?

The Jerusalem Temple was running a juicy racket. But then Al Qaeda style Jewish radicals went and spoilt it. This allowed Christians to conquer the market using much of Judaism's IP to make a successful breakaway, a bit like when the Intel founders left Fairchild,

[Puffer Fish]

I am merely saying that these Megachurches are NOT Christian. They are scams. Scams should be stopped.

That's a pretty broad statement. Quite the generalisation.

[Puffer Fish]

A more interesting story is the relationship between Beijing and The Vatican but if you want my opinion on the destruction of a building constructed without planning permission- meh, what did you expect?

Well, they did have permission to build a building on that land.

They just didn't have permission to build a building that was a church.

Or to state it another way, which I think is equivalent: they didn't have permission to operate that building as a church.

And no doubt the reason they never obtained that permission is they knew the local authorities would never give it. The local authorities did not want a big church. (It entirely had to do with their dislike and contempt for religion, since they are afraid Christianity will spread; and in any case that church didn't even belong to the government-sanctioned branch of Christianity, so the assembly was theoretically illegal anyway)

You'd think maybe rather that blow up and bulldoze the whole building the authorities could have perhaps just prevented it from operating as a church?


The thing one has to understand about China is that China has a huge very long list of controlling laws that mostly go unenforced, except in the rare instances they are. So that makes it very easy for government to crack down on something whenever they want to.
(another example is that VPNs and internet privacy are theoretically illegal in China)

[Unthinking Majority]

Religious freedom is super amazing in China. Just any refugee in your local western city that's a Tibetan monk, Uyghur Muslim, or Falun Gong practitioner.

[Fasces]

Well, they did have permission to build a building on that land.

They just didn't have permission to build a building that was a church.

Or to state it another way, which I think is equivalent: they didn't have permission to operate that building as a church.

If I have permission to build a building next to an elementary school, such as a house, and I turn it into a live nude sex club - is it unjust when the government confiscates my building? @Puffer Fish

[AFAIK]

There was a guy in the UK who built a house concealed within a barn. He had permission for the barn and there's a law that if you build something and the authorities don't complain about it for a year you can keep it. So a year later he removed the barn, pointed out the technicality to the council and it promptly demolished his house.

[Potemkin]

There was a guy in the UK who built a house concealed within a barn. He had permission for the barn and there's a law that if you build something and the authorities don't complain about it for a year you can keep it. So a year later he removed the barn, pointed out the technicality to the council and it promptly demolished his house.

Served him right for being a smartarse.

[Skynet]

The Chinese approach to assimilate minorities by force has never worked in history!

England ruled over Ireland for centuries, they managed to erase the Irish language, but not their faith!