[Capitalist]

[youtube]rGkmgnprrIU[/youtube]

I was wondering if someone could provide further insight as to how a debt jubilee would work as suggested by Steven Keen in the above video. Would there necessarily need to be an increase in goverment debt levels if such a scheme were implemented?

[SecretSquirrel]

Ethics problem #28934689236855689234890234789 of the STATE:

The STATE takes on gigantic, odious debts that are not in the interests of the populace -- most of whom have no say in the matter -- but rather in those of the ruling elites, and then puts the populace and their children on the hook to foreign parasitic, predatory creditors.

CONTRACTS SIGNED UNDER COERCION = NULL AND VOID
DEBTS INCURRED WITHOUT VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT = NULL AND VOID

If the foreign creditors who conspired to do this get mad when the victims refuse to be bullied, fuck them.

You don't need an excuse or a plan to defend your rights, that is a facially appropriate reason all on its own.

[Daktoria]

Yea, there'd definitely be an increase of government debt. He directly says it would be funded by a deficit where everyone would receive a subsidy that's mandated to pay off debt first.

What I don't get is his comment on cash flows. If a bank is receiving interest payments on a regular basis, that's going to be a lot less than if it receives all of its principal paid off all at once. The short term cash flow problem wouldn't exist at all, and if anything, it would put people back in good standing such that loans could be made again. It'd sort of be like refinancing.

I'm also sorely disappointed by his brushing away of the moral hazard point in regards to how this needs a systemic approach. It makes you wonder what his personal background is and whether or not he agreed to be interviewed out of spite. His argumentation technique is completely loaded with self-fulfiling prophecy and confirmation bias too, and his pleasant tone of voice makes him come off as a total jerk.

Pretty much, he shouldn't be listened to by anyone with any sense of responsibility. The only people who would want to listen to him are those who want to CLAIM they're socially responsible, but in reality, couldn't care less about holding people accountable for their individual objective and quantified judgments on how to live their lives. Over and over again, he excuses borrowers and labels creditors as parasites, never actually considering that borrowers are people with their own rationality.

It's really no surprise that he emphasizes NOT distinguishing between good and bad debt. Heck, he doesn't even distinguish between technological investment and speculation, nor does he suggest a method for preventing debt financing of speculation.

It's just a ratings ploy, but what's really sinister is his nonchalant suggestion of violence. If that's not despicable and taking a posh life for granted, what is? It's like he's saying, "Wipe out debt, or take the chance of getting beat up."

[Kman]

Ethics problem #28934689236855689234890234789 of the STATE:

The STATE takes on gigantic, odious debts that are not in the interests of the populace -- most of whom have no say in the matter -- but rather in those of the ruling elites, and then puts the populace and their children on the hook to foreign parasitic, predatory creditors.

CONTRACTS SIGNED UNDER COERCION = NULL AND VOID
DEBTS INCURRED WITHOUT VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT = NULL AND VOID

If the foreign creditors who conspired to do this get mad when the victims refuse to be bullied, fuck them.

Preach it brother!

I didnt sign on any loan contract so why should I be forced to pay the debts of the danish government?

It is like forcing me to pay for the debts of Walmart or Goldman Sachs (wait I am actually paying for Goldman Sachs debts already ).

[SecretSquirrel]

The SQUID has tentacles everywhere

[meazza]

Ethics problem #28934689236855689234890234789 of the STATE:

The STATE takes on gigantic, odious debts that are not in the interests of the populace -- most of whom have no say in the matter -- but rather in those of the ruling elites, and then puts the populace and their children on the hook to foreign parasitic, predatory creditors.

CONTRACTS SIGNED UNDER COERCION = NULL AND VOID
DEBTS INCURRED WITHOUT VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT = NULL AND VOID

If the foreign creditors who conspired to do this get mad when the victims refuse to be bullied, fuck them.

You don't need an excuse or a plan to defend your rights, that is a facially appropriate reason all on its own.

Sometimes I wonder how you even figure out how to tie your shoes in the morning.

[Kman]

Sometimes I wonder how you even figure out how to tie your shoes in the morning.

Is that the best you got?

[meazza]

Is that the best you got?

The bankers don't pay me enough to troll better than this.

[Kman]

The bankers don't pay me enough to troll better than this.

Pff, you cant do any better even if you wanted too.

[ralfy]

Unfortunately, the debt problem we face masks a more difficult one, which is the threat of a resource crunch.

[nucklepunche]

I tend to think the state should just not take down the debts, but extend the finger to creditors and just say that people have no obligation to pay them back.

[ralfy]

I forgot to add that most of what we think is wealth is actually debt.

[meazza]

tend to think the state should just not take down the debts, but extend the finger to creditors and just say that people have no obligation to pay them back.

Lol right

I forgot to add that most of what we think is wealth is actually debt.

So the concept of Net Asset Value is just too hard for most people to figure out eh?

[Shurp]

I have not viewed the the video (I don't have the patience to listen to a talking head babble for 24 minutes to say nothing of substance), but I would like to point out that "Jubilee" explicitly means *cancellation* of debts. The whole point is to force lenders to make money promptly rather than perpetually rolling over debt and encouraging the growth of monstrous credit bubbles.

[Kman]

The whole point is to force lenders to make money promptly rather than perpetually rolling over debt and encouraging the growth of monstrous credit bubbles.

Whether you roll over debt or sign a long term contract for repayment is pretty inconsequential and it is most certainly not why there have been huge credit bubbles, those bubbles are created by the central banks and its subsidiary banks creating money out of thin air and constant inflation and inflation encourages debt accumulation since it rewards debtors and punishes savers.

As for how a debt jubilee would work, it would just fuck over people who save money and greatly reward and encourage fiscal recklessness and consumption, it would not lead to higher government debt.

[ralfy]

So the concept of Net Asset Value is just too hard for most people to figure out eh?

No, it's the idea that what they call "wealth" are actually pieces of paper backed by...more pieces of paper.

[SecretSquirrel]

No, it's the idea that what they call "wealth" are actually pieces of paper backed by...more pieces of paper.

And somewhere down the chain, you have the peace of mind and reassurance that it's all backed by the full faith and credit of our government!!