[Leninist]

I resent that.

[Potemkin]

While I sympathize with the sentiment, I'm pretty sure Marx and his associates actually coined the term "communism".

He did. The fact that he and Engels wrote something called 'The Communist Manifesto' is a bit of a clue.

[Leninist]

He did. The fact that he and Engels wrote something called 'The Communist Manifesto' is a bit of a clue.

Haha, I know, but I mean I was not sure if he actually coined the term itself, as in he was the first one to ever use it, or he just brought it into prominence, with works such as the communist manifesto.

[Potemkin]

Communes existed even in the Middle Ages, and I believed were called such. The word 'communism' merely means the ideology of living in communes. So my guess is that the word, in approximately its modern sense, almost certainly pre-dated Marx. The theory and ideology of Communism in the modern world, however, is almost entirely the creation of Marx (and his anointed successors), however. Soviet society under Stalin, for example, had little in common with a late-medieval commune.

[Leninist]

Communes existed even in the Middle Ages, and I believed were called such. The word 'communism' merely means the ideology of living in communes. So my guess is that the word, in approximately its modern sense, almost certainly pre-dated Marx. The theory and ideology of Communism in the modern world, however, is almost entirely the creation of Marx (and his anointed successors), however. Soviet society under Stalin, for example, had little in common with a late-medieval commune.

Interesting. Thanks for the information .

[annatar1914]

Personally I'd call most real anarchists Communists as well. We all want the same thing in the end and even though we disagree on means we agree that the end of Private Property is our most immediate concern.

I'd say that the end of the State is the greater goal for any real Communist, as Capitalism cannot exist without the modern State.

However, I fully expect the 'Anarcho-Capitalists' to try to do away with the State in due course.

[Dagoth Ur]

I'd rather use the state to make sure private property doesn't gain a platform ever again. As a proletarian I cannot find fault with the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

[Andrea_Chenier]

I'd say that the end of the State is the greater goal for any real Communist, as Capitalism cannot exist without the modern State.

Communism can't exist without state, either. At least in the beginning. There is absolutely no way a communist revolution could simply make all the currently existing state structures go away from one moment to the other. As Dagoth said, the proletarian revolution needs to use the state structures for its advantage, o impose social justice and progress on society. If state power were completely eradicated and society not yet fully emancipated through socialism, I fear the outcome would be anarchic in the most negative sense of the word.

[Technology]

If state power were completely eradicated and society not yet fully emancipated through socialism, I fear the outcome would be anarchic in the most negative sense of the word.

This is why socialists will fight communist revolutionaries in the new Marxist world order (actually... it sort of already happened in Hungary).

"May the nomenklatura quake at the thought of left-communist/anarchist revolution. Down with the new class! Free workers of the world unite!"

[annatar1914]

[quote="Dagoth Ur"]I'd rather use the state to make sure private property doesn't gain a platform ever again. As a proletarian I cannot find fault with the Dictatorship of the Proletariat.[/quote

That has been tried, as is well known.

As is the result; State Capitalism, which degenerates into the Nomenklatura becoming Petit-Bourgoisie, selling off the 'Collective' wealth of the country and becoming Oligarchs.

[Dagoth Ur]

The USSR was never state capitalist. That's exactly why it had to be dismantled, unlike PRC rule, to reap the benefits only possible through the restoration of capital.

[annatar1914]

The USSR was never state capitalist. That's exactly why it had to be dismantled, unlike PRC rule, to reap the benefits only possible through the restoration of capital.

If 'communists' like Yeltsin seize the reigns of power of the State in order to engage in a sell off of collective property and resources, the distinction you make is a small one. Power always becomes individualized and former revolutionaries who become functionaries of the State always either become mercenary condotteire and self promoters or are liquidated in power struggles which cannot be avoided.

[Dagoth Ur]

lol dude your ignorance is screaming pretty loudly right now. Yeltsin a communist. Haha.

[annatar1914]

lol dude your ignorance is screaming pretty loudly right now. Yeltsin a communist. Haha.

Officially and for decades Yeltsin was and had all the appearances of being a loyal member of the CP, and could probably have spouted Marxist Leninist ideology as good as or better than many Marxists on this forum.

[Piccolo]

Officially and for decades Yeltsin was and had all the appearances of being a loyal member of the CP, and could probably have spouted Marxist Leninist ideology as good as or better than many Marxists on this forum.

I am sure the same can also be said for Mikhail Gorbachev and his allies. I have a good deal of respect for the real historical accomplishments of Marxism-Leninism but that tendency has a major historical problem when it comes to internal, top-down counterrevolution.

Party elites overturned socialism in most of the actually-existing socialist countries and because of the excessive centralization of these states there was nothing regular working people could do to stop it short of supporting a coup or staging some kind of insurrection.

[Leninist]

Officially and for decades Yeltsin was and had all the appearances of being a loyal member of the CP, and could probably have spouted Marxist Leninist ideology as good as or better than many Marxists on this forum.

haha, just because I know the bible doesn't make me a Christian, it just means I went to a Catholic school.