[annatar1914]

I think it appropriate for those who may or may not be amused at least by my ideological pergrinations, that I am now a pretty solid Christian Marxist Leninist now...

What am I saying? Yep, I reconcile the two. I really thought long and hard about this, and with a healthy dollop of the work of Nicholai Fyodorov, it all made sense, at least to me. Plus, I was always bothered by Hitler and other's comments about Christianity and Bolshevism....

Anyways, it is done. I can even accept in a certain sense the 'scientific' as opposed to the 'personal' atheism of the Communist parties, in the same sense that a plumber is 'atheistic' or non-theistic when doing or talking about plumbing. If one talks from the senses and a material perspective, it does not negate the apophatic reality of the Holy Triune God, one is looking at Creation from two different perspectives.

So I'm going to work on a number of things to make this new perception of reality work;

1. An examination of racism and fascism and their meaning, and the ramifications of my conclusions on these topics. How much is my previous thoughts on these matters an efflorescence of consciousness determined by living in a Capitalist and Neo- Imperialist system? I'm going to study this.

2. What is the proper attitude of a righteous Orthodox Christian to Communism, and is the rallying call of General Alexei Brusilov for men to join the Red Army in 1920, and the declaration of Sergius in 1927, a proper guide in the matter?

3. Removing the follow-up to these thoughts from the theoretical and online musing and nothing more, what actually must be done personally, to see a better world arise from the ashes of the present?

People like me in my previous political iterations only fool ourselves primarily, then others. I will not support a pagan traditional world order system, racist and fascistic. Property is theft. Racism is murder. Fascism is the celebration of death and of injustice. Capitalism is organized socio-economic egoism, of applied Satanism. Ask Ayn Rand and Anton LaVey about that.

One person must be prudent of course, sane and level headed; "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"., but surely one's heart and mind should be free to see things as they are and the way they should be, and someday we can reach the point of necessary change.

[Princip]

The fact that Christian Communism for you means not Novorossiya-obsessed third positionist Nazbol Dugin-ish mishmash buth rather a more pure and apostolic Tolstoyan-kind perspective is appealing to me. While I'm atheist, I'm glad that you found the ideology that fits you (or you are very close to it).

[Eauz]

I think you're over thinking all of this and I'm concerned for your mental health in the future.

[Saeko]

Anyways, it is done. I can even accept in a certain sense the 'scientific' as opposed to the 'personal' atheism of the Communist parties, in the same sense that a plumber is 'atheistic' or non-theistic when doing or talking about plumbing.

This is literal doublethink. I congratulate you.

Fascism is the celebration of death

What's wrong with death? When one offers complete submission to the party so that he identifies with and is the party, then he is all-powerful and immortal. The cell may grow weary and die, but the weariness of the cell is the strength of the organism.

[Political Interest]

Annatar,

I agree with you on your rejection of racism and capitalism. Both things lead to complete and utter destruction. However, I simply cannot accept the materialist world view of the Marxist-Leninists and cannot forgive them for what they did to religion when actually in power.

The only race I care about is the spiritual race. Someone from another race is far more a compatriot and comrade to me than someone from my own race who does not share my view of the world. values and with whom I cannot develop a close friendship.

Capitalism leads to alienation. No society should have to suffer it. The dominance of capitalism as an economic point of view is absolute and hegemonic all over the world. I don't think the solution is communism but we could find a third way between capitalism and communism.

[Princip]

Capitalism leads to alienation. No society should have to suffer it. The dominance of capitalism as an economic point of view is absolute and hegemonic all over the world. I don't think the solution is communism but we could find a third way between capitalism and communism.

Some time ago I think I would have said something like this myself, however now I think that the only and complete antithesis of capitalism is communism. (Or perhaps mutualism, but nowadays I'm more skepctical of Proudhon's views on economy.) All economic policies that proposed a third way between capitalism and communism resulted in being a watered down version of capitalism, (take Blair's third way for example) or outright fascism (the so-called third position and Strasserism). The concept of a third way is nothing new, and I highly doubt that it can be something different than the aforementioned experiments on economies somewhere between capitalism and communism.

[annatar1914]

My good friend PI!

You said;

I agree with you on your rejection of racism and capitalism. Both things lead to complete and utter destruction. However, I simply cannot accept the materialist world view of the Marxist-Leninists and cannot forgive them for what they did to religion when actually in power.

I do not entirely reject their 'materialism' as I do not see it as materialism in a blind mechanistic sense, while rejecting atheism of course. I cannot forgive the actual Marxist Leninists when in power for what they did and what they failed to do, not least the actual destruction of Socialism and leading to the hell of today.

The only race I care about is the spiritual race. Someone from another race is far more a compatriot and comrade to me than someone from my own race who does not share my view of the world. values and with whom I cannot develop a close friendship.

Well said and truly spoken! I wholeheartedly agree, thanks be to God.

Capitalism leads to alienation. No society should have to suffer it. The dominance of capitalism as an economic point of view is absolute and hegemonic all over the world. I don't think the solution is communism but we could find a third way between capitalism and communism.

I think it must be Communism, but a Communist movement purged of the very bourgeosie/late capitalist period elements that doomed the initial Marxist Leninist attempt.

And the last thing I am, truly, is a Trotskyite Communist.

[Political Interest]

@ Princip,

Some time ago I think I would have said something like this myself, however now I think that the only and complete antithesis of capitalism is communism. (Or perhaps mutualism, but nowadays I'm more skepctical of Proudhon's views on economy.) All economic policies that proposed a third way between capitalism and communism resulted in being a watered down version of capitalism, (take Blair's third way for example) or outright fascism (the so-called third position and Strasserism). The concept of a third way is nothing new, and I highly doubt that it can be something different than the aforementioned experiments on economies somewhere between capitalism and communism.

We did not see what corporatist fascism would look like in reality. Mussolini's experiment with it didn't last long enough for us to make a proper assessment of it in post-war conditions. Italian Fascism never existed in "normal" circumstances. It was either during the depression or during the war. If it had somehow survived we could have made a proper assessment as to whether or not corporatism could serve as an alternate to the free market. Nevertheless I still agree with you that fascism was not in essence all that different to capitalism in its application of economics. National Socialism was not even really socialist at all and less so than Italian fascism.

Tony Blair's Third Way was not even a real third alternative. It was simply capitalism that neither inclined towards state intervention or complete economic liberalism. In practice it was as liberal as could be and Blair was influenced by Thatcherite economic principles.

But what if our third way really is something completely radical and new? What if we were to resurrect the Medieval economy or guild system? Of course we would not be able to adopt it wholesale but could still take the basic template.

@ Annatar,

My friend,

I do not entirely reject their 'materialism' as I do not see it as materialism in a blind mechanistic sense, while rejecting atheism of course. I cannot forgive the actual Marxist Leninists when in power for what they did and what they failed to do, not least the actual destruction of Socialism and leading to the hell of today.

Karl Marx's mistake was to say that everything was materialism or that materialism is the basis of reality. Such a point of view may have been trendy back in the 19th century and a man of that age could possibly have believed it. The world was moving further and further away from spirituality. Old things that people used to believe in were abandoned. People felt that secularism and materialism were the path of human progress and that all man needed was science. In the 21st century people no longer hold so dogmatically to these materialist notions of existence. Even though many people in the West have not re-embraced Christianity they still are looking in many cases to more spiritual explanations of existence.

Karl Marx should have acknowledged that not everything is material and that his theory was a purely sociological and economic analysis of historical development. Spiritual questions are something he should have let an individual decide for themselves. To say religion is the opiate of the masses is simply not true.

Well said and truly spoken! I wholeheartedly agree, thanks be to God.

I am glad we agree. Thanks be to God.

Race obsession will lead to many problems for those who fall into it. Firstly it leads to prideful arrogance and a devaluation of the human as a human. Instead of someone being valuable for who they are as a person they only attain value through their blood. Racism is also unforgiving because it causes people to not care about those who are part of the "wrong" race. The end result is always violence and then collective guilt and mental disease for the offending individuals/nations. One of the reasons the Western world is in such a poor state is because of the mental disease created by the guilt of the racist excesses of the past.

In any case most of the fears that a lot of racists have can be dealt with through other means. They do not need to be racists to stop mass immigration for example.

I think it must be Communism, but a Communist movement purged of the very bourgeosie/late capitalist period elements that doomed the initial Marxist Leninist attempt.

And the last thing I am, truly, is a Trotskyite Communist.

Which bourgeois elements were these?

[annatar1914]

Dear PI

@ Annatar,

My friend,

Karl Marx's mistake was to say that everything was materialism or that materialism is the basis of reality. Such a point of view may have been trendy back in the 19th century and a man of that age could possibly have believed it. The world was moving further and further away from spirituality. Old things that people used to believe in were abandoned. People felt that secularism and materialism were the path of human progress and that all man needed was science. In the 21st century people no longer hold so dogmatically to these materialist notions of existence. Even though many people in the West have not re-embraced Christianity they still are looking in many cases to more spiritual explanations of existence.

I guess perhaps I'm a bit strange in that for me, 'materialism' has no Atheistic ramifications for me. It just means that for me, everything created whether visible or invisible is also divisible and capable of extension in 3-D spaces. And 'Spirit' to me, strictly speaking is God. It is not because I am advanced or anything; because actually I am rather simplistic thinking in my worldview. I don't accept all of Marx and Marxists, but oddly their dynamic materialism was the least of my concerns. I will freely admit however for all that that your concerns you mention are valid for most people I think.

Karl Marx should have acknowledged that not everything is material and that his theory was a purely sociological and economic analysis of historical development. Spiritual questions are something he should have let an individual decide for themselves. To say religion is the opiate of the masses is simply not true.

Pretty much.

On Racism;

I am glad we agree. Thanks be to God.

Race obsession will lead to many problems for those who fall into it. Firstly it leads to prideful arrogance and a devaluation of the human as a human. Instead of someone being valuable for who they are as a person they only attain value through their blood. Racism is also unforgiving because it causes people to not care about those who are part of the "wrong" race. The end result is always violence and then collective guilt and mental disease for the offending individuals/nations. One of the reasons the Western world is in such a poor state is because of the mental disease created by the guilt of the racist excesses of the past.

In any case most of the fears that a lot of racists have can be dealt with through other means. They do not need to be racists to stop mass immigration for example.

Plenty of other reasons to oppose, yes.

Which bourgeois elements were these?

I would say the rather crude and doctrinaire Darwinism and attendant Atheism of the modern Socialists, particularly Marxists, is a holdover from the trend of the late 19th century.

[Truth To Power]

What's wrong with death?

There you have it, folks.

When one offers complete submission to the party so that he identifies with and is the party, then he is all-powerful and immortal.

No, then he is just a sad, pathetic victim sacrificed on the altar of The Party by evil, lying charlatans.

The cell may grow weary and die, but the weariness of the cell is the strength of the organism.

The metaphor of the organism is the rationalization of the malignancy.

[quetzalcoatl]

What's wrong with death? When one offers complete submission to the party so that he identifies with and is the party, then he is all-powerful and immortal. The cell may grow weary and die, but the weariness of the cell is the strength of the organism.

It's true that liberalism went off the deep end in the celebration of individualism. We need a space for the expression of collective will. Tribal hierarchy is an inescapable legacy of human evolution. But it is an equal mistake to go off the other end of the scale. A balance between the individual and the collective is also a part of our legacy. We also need a space for the anarchic spirit of the individual.

The idea that you are a cell of an immortal species is just as frustrating and unsatisfying as the idea that you are an immortal soul housed in a mortal body. It's just s way of lying to yourself. You're gonna die, period. Learn to live with it, and transcend it.

[Andrea_Chenier]

I think it appropriate for those who may or may not be amused at least by my ideological pergrinations, that I am now a pretty solid Christian Marxist Leninist now...

Welcome to the club! I don't think it's an impossibility to reinvent a marxism-leninism with more tolerance towards religious institutions (as long as they don't block societal progress and equality). Marxism always was about the real, concrete struggle against capitalism. Back in the day the Church was clearly a fundamental constituent of the capitalist establishment, it was logical for marxist-leninists to fight it. However, nowadays the Church has already been put in its place by liberal-capitalism, by the non-patriarchal order of consumerist permissivity that followed the system's incorporation of 1968's social values. In some cases popular religion can even function as a leftist people mobilizer, like Catholicism was used by Chavez in Venezuela.

[annatar1914]

Thank you Andrea Chenier! You said that;

Welcome to the club! I don't think it's an impossibility to reinvent a marxism-leninism with more tolerance towards religious institutions (as long as they don't block societal progress and equality).

Thinking more about this, looking back, I think that religious/spiritual life, for me Orthodox Christianity, is pretty much the 'missing ingredient', that could have prevented the collapse of the Soviet Union entirely. But if Orthodoxy is true, and if Dialectical Materialism is also true, Communism will come back in greater and more powerful form.

Edit; as to Dialectical Materialism, it is to be understood that I believe a couple of things, theological opinion to be sure, but not defined as errors by Orthodoxy;

1. I am a Physical Monist. All Creation is physical, Matter in motion or inertia, there are no created spiritual beings that are not material, whether we are able to perceive them or not is an entirely different thing to ponder.

2. Within this Creation, all things have come from God, and all things tend to return to God or resist that return. This conflict at the heart of Creation, made substantial by what philosophers have called; 'Metaphysical Evil' (limitation and finitude in created things), causes the Dialectical Triad to operate, and the Laws of Dialectical Materialism are thus Laws of the Universe made by Almighty God.

Marxism always was about the real, concrete struggle against capitalism.

Indeed, looking at what the Early Fathers of Orthodox Christianity said about wealth the the Rich, and the Marxist critique of the 'sinful structure' of Capitalism itself, and I see no real difference.

Back in the day the Church was clearly a fundamental constituent of the capitalist establishment, it was logical for marxist-leninists to fight it.

Back in the day, real Orthodox who understood the nature of their Christian struggle, already knew that the 'Holy Synod' was bogus, a tool of the Czars since the Antichrist Peter.

However, nowadays the Church has already been put in its place by liberal-capitalism,

Over a longer period of time, more murderous, more malevolent, more soul-destroying and atheistic, than the God-Hating Bolsheviks after 1917.

by the non-patriarchal order of consumerist permissivity that followed the system's incorporation of 1968's social values

Exactly! Amazing that the Faux-Left was set up to push decadent Bourgeosie sinfulness as the very thing to fight for to 'liberate' the masses... When it has in fact more firmly enslaved them to the System and it's Elites.

. In some cases popular religion can even function as a leftist people mobilizer, like Catholicism was used by Chavez in Venezuela.

Well, i'm not one to speak of religion as such as a 'catch-all' for getting people mobilized, as I in fact can agree with Father John Romanides that 'religion' is in fact a 'neuro-biological disorder', but that's another issue. What the Church can do, is make people understand the Christian foundations of Communism, and make people better citizens of a newer and better, more just Social and Economic order.

[Dagoth Ur]

Hmm. It isn't like the Soviet Orthodox Church had any real support. As soon as the SU was dismantled the exiles took back the leadership roles and canonized those bastard Romanovs. Face it, Abrahamic religions do not belong in a post-capitalist/post-liberal society and they will do everything in their power to wreck any real attempts at socialism.

This is not an endorsement of Atheism (which is just another type of Abrahamic bullshit).

[annatar1914]

Hmm. It isn't like the Soviet Orthodox Church had any real support

Not talking about them necessarily.

. As soon as the SU was dismantled the exiles took back the leadership roles and canonized those bastard Romanovs.

Part of a larger Counter-Revolutionary movement which dismantled the SU.

Face it, Abrahamic religions do not belong in a post-capitalist/post-liberal society and they will do everything in their power to wreck any real attempts at socialism.

Hardly, they are the fountain from which socialism as a consequence of 'the leaven in the dough' comes forth.

This is not an endorsement of Atheism (which is just another type of Abrahamic bullshit).

Atheism is the Shadow of God, Satan being the first Atheist and in fact, Antitheist.

[AuRomin]

I guess that's reason enough to identify as a Satanist.

As far as the OP, Marxist-Leninism is unrealistic for the modern world. A movement won't get any support by already indoctrinated people unless it is based on transparency, collaboration, and facts. There is no conceivable way that some vanguard will lead the masses to socialist victory. This will happen when people see the fact that capitalism is just a stepping stone to socialism, and then possibly full communism, by way of bottom-up information dissemination and discussion. It also doesn't help that people view the religious-like aspects of Marxist-Leninism to contradict with their current world-views, and this doesn't work well to spread information, in fact it just makes people close up more. I propose you look into other ways of achieving communism.

Other than that, congrats on merging communism with religion (though philosophically they have similar foundations).

[Dagoth Ur]

Satan is a broad term for all of YHWH's enemies. None of which rejects that God exists but that he is not what he says he is.

Also exactly how many socialist movements were started by practising Abrahamics? And how many were crushed by them?

[annatar1914]

Satan is a broad term for all of YHWH's enemies.

There are 'Satans', and then there is Satan.

None of which rejects that God exists but that he is not what he says he is.

I think at heart that all Atheists are the same; they know God exists, but prefer to believe that God doesn't exist or that He has no right to interfere with them.

Also exactly how many socialist movements were started by practising Abrahamics?

Jesus Christ and His Apostles, the Early Church, the Monastics, etc.... All 'Socialist'. Mt. Athos to this day is a pretty good example.

And how many were crushed by them?

Practicing? Or genuine?



AuRomin, you said

I guess that's reason enough to identify as a Satanist.

As far as the OP, Marxist-Leninism is unrealistic for the modern world. A movement won't get any support by already indoctrinated people unless it is based on transparency, collaboration, and facts. There is no conceivable way that some vanguard will lead the masses to socialist victory. This will happen when people see the fact that capitalism is just a stepping stone to socialism, and then possibly full communism, by way of bottom-up information dissemination and discussion. It also doesn't help that people view the religious-like aspects of Marxist-Leninism to contradict with their current world-views, and this doesn't work well to spread information, in fact it just makes people close up more. I propose you look into other ways of achieving communism.

Other than that, congrats on merging communism with religion (though philosophically they have similar foundations).

Lenin said that the first thing was to come to power, period. Under this false System and the false Consciousness that it generates, the only way you can get to change people's minds is to come to power, complete power, first.

[AuRomin]

I don't see a quote, but assuming he said this, he is incorrect in my opinion. Evidence: I believe that communism is what the future holds and is the correct way forward, but was not coerced into thinking that. I actually did much independent thought before even researching works of Marx, Lenin, etc. Also, many of the current 'communist' establishments are very corrupt and have incapacitated themselves.

I think at heart that all Atheists are the same; they know God exists, but prefer to believe that God doesn't exist or that He has no right to interfere with them.

I consider myself an atheist. I don't believe that a god exists, on the basis of lacking evidence or proof. I, similarly, don't say it is impossible, but for me, there is no god (whether or not it has a right to interfere if it exists).

[annatar1914]

Done with politics and political labels at all, in any modern sense. I am a Orthodox Christian, and I am a Man, that is all.