[Atlantis]

Deep down, you think the way we do, Atlantis. You just don't want to admit it, not even to yourself.

I can understand your feeling Pote, you don't want to go down on your own. It's a lonely world out there. But there you are, you have made your choice. I assure you from the depth of my heart that you will always be dear to me. So don't disrepair, somebody feels with you, but you must understand that we can't let you drag us down with you.

Briefly: he makes the country go backwards, not forward, while stealing much of the EU-transfers from the country through his mafia state. He said once that Azerbaijan was a model-state. He didn't exactly say it was a role model that we should follow, but it's a model-state according to him. He'd like to rule like Aliyev does, he wants to make the country be like Azerbaijan.

I do understand the problem of corruption and clientele politics, but other countries have elections where these sort of things are usually a disadvantage to the incumbent.

Unfortunately, the EU can't be all too aggressive about corruption in member states since there tends to be a nationalist backlash, but I'm sure that over time, models of transparencies will spread to the furthest parts of the Union, especially when EU transfers are involved. Many Eastern members have inherited a kleptocracy, which is even worse in non-EU countries like Ukraine. Only time can fix that.

[Beren]

I do understand the problem of corruption and clientele politics, but other countries have elections where these sort of things are usually a disadvantage to the incumbent.

Hungary is not a Western democracy with a corruption problem and client politics, it's a post-socialist or post-soviet mafia state such as non-EU countries like Ukraine. Hence we lean towards Russia and Turkey, and because we have a despot too.

[Potemkin]

Hungary is not a Western democracy with a corruption problem and client politics, it's a post-socialist or post-soviet mafia state such as non-EU countries like Ukraine. Hence we lean towards Russia and Turkey, and because we have a despot too.

Face it, Beren - you were better off under Kadar. At least the Commies were honest men.

[Beren]

Face it, Beren - you were better off under Kadar. At least the Commies were honest men.

Whether they were honest or not, they cared about the people and all they had stolen was nothing compared to today's kleptocracy. The country's prestige was higher as well, decent citizens didn't have to feel ashamed being Hungarian. But goulash communism can also be blamed for this. They did a very good job ruining some moral standards.

[KlassWar]

The pride of Socialism out of reach to most ordinary workers.


The product of the Western market economy most ordinary workers can afford.

Oh fuck off Atlantis. Cold-war era Western cars were more like the Trabi than the BMW. And the notion that people couldn't afford cars in the Eastern Bloc is complete bullshit: There was such an effective demand for cars that suppy couldn't always keep up!

[Rugoz]

There was such an effective demand for cars that suppy couldn't always keep up!

That's also a way to put it.

[The Sabbaticus]

[Potemkin]

Let's face it, when the Wall came down in 1989, the wrong Germany won. Someone like this would have been sent to a labour camp for re-education under the Socialist Unity Party's benevolent and wise leadership.

[Political Interest]

Ah yes, the wonderful Green ideology, a product of the 1970s. All of this is now so old and boring.

[Atlantis]

Berg is one of many insignificant green politicians in an insignificant green faction of an insignificant regional parliament whose three word phrase was taken out of context to be used in the most bigoted hate campaign anybody could possibly imagine. Even the far-right leaders of the AfD have apologized to Berg. But it appears that our racist bigots, led by Sabaticus, will always find a way to be more bigoted than even the most bigoted of racists.

[The Sabbaticus]

I don't think that you can characterize that entire speech as a 'three word phrase'. And I'll believe it when I see it.

[Decky]

Would a world without Germans be much of a loss? They shoot unarmed nurses.

[Potemkin]

Would a world without Germans be much of a loss? They shoot unarmed nurses.

I dunno, Decky - so long as they are under the guidance of a wise and benevolent Communist government, they tend to behave themselves. Let's not to too harsh on the Hun.

[Decky]

You wouldn't understand. You are a protestant. You probably have a massive picture of Martin Luther up in your house somewhere like we have a massive picture of the holy virgin.

[Potemkin]

You wouldn't understand. You are a protestant. You probably have a massive picture of Martin Luther up in your house somewhere like we have a massive picture of the holy virgin.

No Decky, I have a massive portrait of Karl Marx (pbuh) instead. But I do have a confession to make (if that doesn't sound too papist) - at my graduation ceremony at Edinburgh University, the Chancellor touched my head with a leather cap which was reputedly made from an old pair of John Knox's keks. It probably infused my brain with a Protestant virus which is deadly to all Papist ideas.

[The Immortal Goon]

Just simply having read that made my forehead explode into sparks. I was a little baffled by that until I looked it up: That's where the holy water from my baptisim had been placed.

[Potemkin]

It's our way of assimilating new graduates into the Protestant Hive Mind, TIG.

[Political Interest]

East Germany was a mostly Protestant country, interestingly enough.

It, along with Estonia and Latvia, were the only two Protestant lands in the whole of the red empire.

[Rich]

Would a world without Germans be much of a loss? They shoot unarmed nurses.

German rule of Belgium in WWI, hell Nazi rule of Belgium in WWII was a sight better than peace time rule of the red Lords in the Ukraine in the 1920's.