[TrumpSortOfMeme]

The right (The far right particularly) tend to stick with this Cold War capitalist tradition of calling anyone who is anti-capitalist a "Commie". Socialism isn't Communism and it seems being a Communist is still an insult. Should we try a educate people about what Communism is? Yet its difficult because the average man/women isn't generally going to sit down and read Marx. Most people don't know close to anything about their own political system, so how do we teach people that Socialism/Communism isn't the devil like the media has taught them.

Doesn't help that Socialists and Communists are more likely to be atheist than the Right. And we know how much the Right loves Atheists. :|
To be taken more seriously than "Some Preaching Commie" must we use force like the Neo-Nazi's? (Of course not) but if we are dismissed for speaking and cast into the shadow of the Beast which is Capitalism...

[Cartertonian]

Communism was US Capitalist and Libertarians' 'bogey man' for fifty years. They've got a new bogey man who wears a towel on his head, but they do like to keep the illusion of a Red Menace in reserve...

[The Immortal Goon]

Welcome to the forum.

I tend to think that the only thing to be done is to constantly explain it over and over again in places like this and other places on the internet.

As Cart said, for the past 50 years (though I might double or triple that) the Commies were shorthand for the bad guys. That's breaking down a bit now, and explaining what's behind it is important on places like this.

Off the internet, it's organizing labour. They don't need to be organized into communists, but agitating for a union at your job will address some of the issues that are systematic and encourage the working class directly around you to think about the issues. Few, if any, will be reading Marx in a week, but they'll learn to stand up for themselves.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

Welcome to the forum.

I tend to think that the only thing to be done is to constantly explain it over and over again in places like this and other places on the internet.

As Cart said, for the past 50 years (though I might double or triple that) the Commies were shorthand for the bad guys. That's breaking down a bit now, and explaining what's behind it is important on places like this.

Off the internet, it's organizing labour. They don't need to be organized into communists, but agitating for a union at your job will address some of the issues that are systematic and encourage the working class directly around you to think about the issues. Few, if any, will be reading Marx in a week, but they'll learn to stand up for themselves.

Thanks.
Problem is that us Communists don't own the media. Now with the Bernie Sanders campaign people are learning what Socialism is, and the fact that a lot of the benefit's they receive from their governments are Socialist. I notice that people are treating Communism as the KKK of the left, being a Socialist is just a General thing among Millennials. But being Communist means your a extremist. Educating is going to be a slow process, but with the worker becoming poorer and the Capitalists are getting richer and more powerful. People need to realize that Communism is the choice to fight these greedy Capitalists, but before we fall into a Feudalistic style society.

[Decky]

Now with the Bernie Sanders campaign people are learning what Socialism is, and the fact that a lot of the benefit's they receive from their governments are Socialist.

Socialism is about total working class control of the means of production, distribution and exchange. It has nothing to do with being given scraps by the government.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

:eh:

Socialism is about total working class control of the means of production, distribution and exchange. It has nothing to do with being given scraps by the government.

I'm not sure you understand that American Democracy is very Socialistic, example are Social Security, Medicare etc. So maybe not complete Socialism but people are starting to learn that they LIKE Socialism because of the benefit it brings them in society. Of course its impossible to draw the line of Socialism because there are many different Socialism. (And I think you may be confused on the difference between Socialism and Communism but correct me if I am wrong).

[fuser]

I'm not sure you understand that American Democracy is very Socialistic

What?

It really looks like that in America the word socialism has lost all its meaning. As Decky said socialism is not about government distributing scraps.

But anyway you are new, so welcome aboard comrade, there's still hope.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

:lol: What?

It really looks like that in America the word socialism has lost all its meaning. As Decky said socialism is not about government distributing scraps.

But anyway you are new, so welcome aboard comrade, there's still hope.

Thanks for the welcome. "Socialism has lost all its meaning" But what does Socialism mean, because its a very board term. Just because "Government Scraps" aren't full Socialism, this doesn't mean they aren't a path to Socialism. I'm definitely not saying the Capitalist pigs on Wall Street and their friends in government care about Socialism, what I am saying is that using the small amount of Socialism America (By the way I'm not American, just using them as a example), we can show that expanding on it would be even better for the average worker and that Socialism and of course eventually Communism are not Taboo and do work despite what the media has "taught" them.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

I'm not sure you understand that American Democracy is very Socialistic, example are Social Security, Medicare etc. So maybe not complete Socialism but people are starting to learn that they LIKE Socialism because of the benefit it brings them in society. Of course its impossible to draw the line of Socialism because there are many different Socialism. (And I think you may be confused on the difference between Socialism and Communism but correct me if I am wrong).

Social democracy is not the same as socialism, and such reforms to enact a form of a welfare state are not socialist. The sorts of reforms you mention were influenced greatly by similar ideas introduced by Bismarck; they are not intended to spark change or increase calls for revolution and the implementation of socialism, but to placate the working class and reduce support for Marxist groups.

Now with the Bernie Sanders campaign people are learning what Socialism is, and the fact that a lot of the benefit's they receive from their governments are Socialist.

As any Marxist will point out, Sanders is not a socialist.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

Social democracy is not the same as socialism, and such reforms to enact a form of a welfare state are not socialist. The sorts of reforms you mention were influenced greatly by similar ideas introduced by Bismarck; they are not intended to spark change or increase calls for revolution and the implementation of socialism, but to placate the working class and reduce support for Marxist groups.



As any Marxist will point out, Sanders is not a socialist.

First of all, I did elude to the fact I understand that these Socialist Policies such as Medicare are used to keep Socialist quiet, but just because they are used to stop Socialist uprising among the working class does not mean these aren't Socialistic Policies. They show that we do have Socialism in our lives (Though a small amount of it).
Secondly, I did not say Sanders was a Socialist, he hold Socialist Ideas, hence the term Democratic Socialist.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Again, there is a difference between social democracy and socialism: the welfare state, and associated concessions and scraps/handouts to the lower class, is not socialism.

Sanders is not a socialist, and is not a democratic socialist, despite what he or other people say. He has done nothing nor has ever had any plans to introduce a socialist economic system. He might believe in democratic socialism, but as a politician he is just another social democrat. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, but being a nice guy doesn't make him a socialist when his actions show he is not a socialist.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

Again, there is a difference between social democracy and socialism: the welfare state, and associated concessions and scraps/handouts to the lower class, is not socialism.

Sanders is not a socialist, and is not a democratic socialist, despite what he or other people say. He has done nothing nor has ever had any plans to introduce a socialist economic system. He might believe in democratic socialism, but as a politician he is just another social democrat. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, but being a nice guy doesn't make him a socialist when his actions show he is not a socialist.

I think we can just agree to disagree on this point :)

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

I think we can just agree to disagree on this point

In what way exactly? The modern welfare state is based upon a number of ideas, but has always been a means of conceding provisions to the lower classes to uphold capitalism and a class-based society. Historically, the existence of welfare reforms have been used as a tool and a stick, withheld from strikers as a means of disciplining them, and as a counterweight to people who agitate for better benefits by claiming those people are lazy and that productive citizens wouldn't need better benefits. In this way, the welfare state creates new levels of oppression for the working class.

It can of course be argued that welfare is "socialistic," but it is not socialism: welfare has nothing to do with the elimination of class difference, nor with the communal control of the means of production and the means of its distribution. Many states have enacted forms of welfare, from fascist ones to socialist ones and of course to Imperial Germany which set a standard for the modern welfare state to build upon. Again, the welfare state is not socialism as it, without a socialist political and economic component, has nothing to do with socialism, and is not designed to empower the working class.

As for Sanders, what makes you think he is a socialist, beyond people who don't know what democratic socialism means using terms and words like that? He might have ideals involving socialism, but what sort of socialist political and economic proposals and reforms has he actually been involved with?

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

In what way exactly? The modern welfare state is based upon a number of ideas, but has always been a means of conceding provisions to the lower classes to uphold capitalism and a class-based society. Historically, the existence of welfare reforms have been used as a tool and a stick, withheld from strikers as a means of disciplining them, and as a counterweight to people who agitate for better benefits by claiming those people are lazy and that productive citizens wouldn't need better benefits. In this way, the welfare state creates new levels of oppression for the working class.

It can of course be argued that welfare is "socialistic," but it is not socialism: welfare has nothing to do with the elimination of class difference, nor with the communal control of the means of production and the means of its distribution. Many states have enacted forms of welfare, from fascist ones to socialist ones and of course to Imperial Germany which set a standard for the modern welfare state to build upon. Again, the welfare state is not socialism as it, without a socialist political and economic component, has nothing to do with socialism, and is not designed to empower the working class.

As for Sanders, what makes you think he is a socialist, beyond people who don't know what democratic socialism means using terms and words like that? He might have ideals involving socialism, but what sort of socialist political and economic proposals and reforms has he actually been involved with?

Firstly, when did I disagree with anything you have said here, I agree that these Socialistic Policies I have mentioned are just a distraction from Capitalism greed and I point to shut down Socialists. Welfare is Socialistic and that was my point, it is stepping stones but no where near what true Socialism is. To be completely honest with you, your argument is just sounds like you are metaphorically spewing rhetoric instead of having a discussion. I may be wrong on some points but I am here to learn. Not to have my points thrown in my face with no evidence. As for the point about Bernie, I'll stick with the experts on that one. I tried to end the argument peacefully, but unless you have evidence and a valid counter argument, I say good day sir.

[fuser]

Welfare is socialistic? What does that mean? Was Bismarck's Germany socialist? Imperial Japan, socialist?

Of course not, its absurd to claim so, welfare state =/= socialist. If any expert is telling you that then he/she is no expert, this point isn't even for contention, its like politics 101.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

Welfare is socialistic? What does that mean? Was Bismarck's Germany socialist? Imperial Japan, socialist?

Of course not, its absurd to claim so, welfare state =/= socialist. If any expert is telling you that then he/she is no expert, this point isn't even for contention, its like politics 101.

After first this was a reasonable discussion that have learnt a lot from, but your comment is ridiculous. Just because Political Systems and countries have Socialist parts does not mean they are Socialist like I have been saying. Of course Bismarck's Germany and Imperial Japan aren't Socialist but that is a complete straw-man if I have ever seen one. I was talking about experts when it came to Bernie Sanders being a Democratic Socialist not a Welfare state being Socialism. And if I am being mistaken please explain but because this has gone to far out of context, please private message me if you feel it necessary.

[Decky]

Lenin would be holding his head in his hands and weeping if he read your comments.

[TrumpSortOfMeme]

Lenin would be holding his head in his hands and weeping if he read your comments.

But why? ... no one will explain to me why...

[Decky]

Socialism is about total working class control of the means of production, distribution and exchange. It has nothing to do with being given scraps by the government.

[fuser]

1 government run school = 0.00000017% socialism....................................... Not!