Is my ideology Communist? If not, what is it like? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Workers of the world, unite! Then argue about Trotsky and Stalin for all eternity...
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14806246
Background Info

- Political Compass - Economic: -8.5, Social: -7.18
- My F-Scale test result is 1.90 (a “whining rotter” according to the website)
- My ideal society should be created through revolution, but gradual reforms and actions must be taken over the courses of several years to get people to support the revolutionaries.
- I feel like I’m left-wing, but I’ve never really been sure where I’d be on the spectrum.

Principles and Defining Traits

- Vanguardism: I think that society should be led by the most dedicated and politically active members of each social class (not just the working class - but middle and upper-class people who support the movement of equality and progress), not by democracy. Power should be given to those who work towards it and are fit to lead, not to apathetic and uneducated voters.
- Equality: Everyone should be equal in the eyes of other citizens and the State. Things like gender roles, expectations on sexual orientation, stereotyping of different races, etc should stop. People should be able to develop themselves to their fullest potential without having to conform to arbitrary cultural standards.
- Nationalism: While I do support the eventual abolition of borders, nations, etc, I recognize that abolishing these will take as long as it did to establish them. Therefore, I believe that all citizens of a nation should be fiercely nationalistic and proud of their nation, in order to motivate them to work towards improving it. However, I don’t think that this nationalism should be expressed in the form of denigrating other nations or of racism and xenophobia.
- Devotion to the State: Citizens should feel a sense of duty towards the State and should actively work towards always making it better through work. In addition, people should feel the need to be the best version of themselves possible, since I think that a society is only as great as the people it is made of.
- Maintaining Peace: The people should actively work towards keeping society stable, peaceful, and progressive. However, they should also know that violence is sometimes inevitable, and should be prepared to defend society and their way of life against any threats if necessary.

Society and Government

Crime and Justice

- Capital punishment should be completely abolished; no one is more useful and productive dead than alive. The harshest punishment should be life sentences in work camps, in order to ensure that no one’s work potential is wasted.
- Firearms and self-defense weapons should be legalized for everyone who is able to pass a biannual mental health test and morals test.
- A greater emphasis should be placed on community watch and community policing programs.
- Mass surveillance is ineffective and drains the morale of the people, therefore I am against it.
- A strong emphasis should be placed on re-educating and rehabilitating terrorists. The government should fund anti-radicalization programs in order to limit the amount of terrorist attacks.
Culture
- The nation should have a dominant culture that the majority follows, but minority cultures should be given equal respect and status. Multiculturalism, as long as it does not conflict with the values of the State, should be promoted.
- The values of hard work, self-discipline, self-improvement, working towards a greater goal, cooperation, respect, and learning should be promoted.
- The government should support cultural activities heavily, since the people will become disillusioned with the nation and preserving the wellbeing of the State if they feel that their culture doesn’t suit them or isn’t good.

Family and Gender

- Marriage should not be the government’s problem. People should be free to marry whoever they want (with restrictions on incest, zoophilia, and pedophilia). Polygamy, polygyny, group marriage, and same-sex marriage are all allowed.
- Abortion should be available on demand to any woman who asks for it.
- Sex ed programs and programs designed to make contraceptives more freely available to the people should be expanded.
- All gender identities should be respected. People spreading hate towards transgendered people or those with nontraditional gender identities should be charged with hate crimes.

Healthcare

- Healthcare should be available to all at no cost. Everyone should receive the same level of health insurance as well.
- Mental health issues should be treated with the same urgency and commitment as physical health issues.
- Government-funded gyms and physical recreation facilities should be expanded in order to promote a healthy lifestyle.
- Euthanasia should be legal, after the requesting patient proves to a doctor that they are mentally aware and know the implications of assisted suicide.

Vices

- Prostitution should be legalized and regulated.
- All recreational drugs should be legalized, but addiction treatment programs should be expanded as well.
- Gambling should be criminalized, since it promotes capitalistic views and greed.
- Drugs that could give people an advantage in some situations (e.g. nootropics, Modafinil, some amphetamines) should be provided by the government to people in high-stress jobs, educational research, etc.
- Pornography should be legal.

Religion

- The State is strictly secular, although there is freedom of religion provided that one’s religious practices do not limit the wellbeing of another person.
- People who preach and promote hateful religious ideology should be arrested and put in reeducation camps.

Immigration

- Immigrants should generally be allowed in after passing tests that prove that their beliefs do not conflict with those of the State. Immigrants should have access to job training programs and educational programs in order to more easily integrate them into society, and to maximize their value to the country.
- Refugees and asylum seekers should be allowed to seek shelter in this society.
- If caught living off of the nation’s social welfare benefits without working, immigrants (legal or illegal) should be sentenced to one year in a work camp, after which they can choose to stay and find a job, or to leave.

Education

- The main goal of schooling should be shifted from preparing children for work and towards making them learners. I know this sounds strange in the context of this work-heavy society, but we want workers who excel in what they do and enjoy doing it instead of people who grudgingly work and half-a** their work.
- All education (from preschool to a Ph.D) should be free.

Media

- The media should be controlled and monitored by the State and the police in order to ensure that no hate speech or propaganda is broadcast.
- Media outlets that mislead the public should have their assets appropriated by the government, and the perpetrators of the lies should be sentenced to hard labour.
- There should be a state-funded news outlet that receives preferential treatment and airtime, but other news outlets are allowed to be created and exist.
- Shows that satirize the government are allowed, but should be required to clearly state that their depiction of the government and of society is untrue and simply meant for humour.

Military

- The military’s focus should be (in peacetime) helping struggling nations through peacekeeping efforts, maintaining national security, and helping local security forces when required.
- Compulsory military service and conscription are prohibited, since it would lead to many unmotivated and incompetent people serving in the military.
- Everyone is allowed to join whichever branch or career in the military they wish, irrespective of gender identity, race, nationality, etc.
- The State should promote joining the Reserve Force in order to keep a well-trained and disciplined population.

Government

- The nation will be led by the leader of the revolutionary vanguard party, and will be surrounded by their advisors. The leader will be educated, represent all classes, and be bold and committed to the vision of a free and equal society. If the leader dies, then he will have already chosen a successor to lead after.
- Citizen participation in politics is not allowed. The only people allowed to form government are the members of the revolutionary vanguards.
- All citizens are guaranteed inalienable rights and freedoms from the nation’s constitution.
- Local districts will be governed by vanguardist worker’s collectives, who are monitored and directed by the federal government.
- A Revolutionary Manifesto will be the foundation of the actions and decisions of the government.
- The Legislative Branch will be composed of vanguardist revolutionaries, and will make decisions independent of the people, the executive branch, and the judicial branch. Theoretically the legislative branch has the power to hold referendums involving all citizens, but the results of the referendums are never made public and are not binding. Governmental decisions, events, and meetings should be completely open to the public for view.

Foreign Affairs

- Western democratic organizations like NATO and the UN should be avoided. Instead, this society should form international organizations with like-minded nations.
- Interventionism in the affairs of a foreign country should only occur if the events in that country could have negative effects on our society.

II. Economy

Economic Model

- Private enterprise should not exist; all large economic forces and organizations should be controlled by the State and serve the State. The State should ensure that all citizens have their needs provided for, and in return all citizens should work towards preserving the State which has given them so much.

Property

- Private property should not exist, although personal property is fine. Personal property refers to things an individual uses for themselves, while private property refers to land, means of production, etc that someone owns and charges others to use, so that the owner can make a profit.
- Distribution of property (housing) should be decided by the worker’s collectives in the local districts, but the provision of housing will be guaranteed by the federal government.

Taxes

- Inheritance should be limited to things that have more sentimental value than real value (inheritance of things such as land, homes, etc should be settled in court). For all non-sentimental or intangibly valuable things, the government will seize them and use them for the greater good.
- Property tax is abolished, since all property is provided by the government.
- Since people will not have to worry about their basic needs (such as food, water, shelter, electricity, heating, etc), income taxes will be significantly increased.

Employment and Industry

- Membership in a labour union should be a requirement for having a job.
- “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” should be the model for employment. - People should work in areas that they are skilled at and can therefore contribute the most.
- Industries and work organizations should be collectively owned, as opposed to a system of bosses and underlings.
- Copyright laws should be abolished.
- All work should serve the needs and goals of the State in some way.
- Unlike other Communist systems, the working class and the farmers will not have their societal status elevated to the detriment of the intellectuals. All types of work are equally important in building a great society.

Environment

- The government should not develop and exploit natural resources if doing so is detrimental to the environmental wellbeing of the nation.
- Renewable energy industries should be favoured and developed more than non-renewable energy industries.
#14806285
@ggyungstalinxxo

Mostly Bolshevism but if that wasn't retarded enough you have spliced it with bits of fascism and the moronic ravings of the gender blending SJWs.

You have been comprehensive on your policies but what is missing is an emigration policy, yes I spelled that right Emigration policy not Immigration policy, in short how will you prevent everyone escaping your hellscape? Trump wants to build a wall to keep people out, you will have to build a wall, an iron curtain if you will, to keep people from escaping your enormous open air slave labour prison complex.

Hilariously immigrants (as if there would be any) have to find a job or be enslaved by the state, but the state is the only employer.... :roll: :lol:
#14806290
I strongly disagree with Bolshevism based upon the fierce nationalism and class collaboration elements of your ideology.

Beyond that though, there seems to be a moral element that is not in anyway related to dialectical materialism.

Even if someone were to say that your ideology was an adaptation of communism that was divorced from the original Marx and reflected a kind of non-Marxist Stalinism, this would be an ideology that came about after no party in the world was called Bolshevik any more.

No, at best this is some kind of Popular Frontism. Without class struggle and Marxism though, this is really just a kind of streamlined bourgeois ideology.

Something to consider: The Political Compass is a libertarian invention that tries to force a centuries old political orientation into some kind of graph that makes it so rightwingers won't be associated with Hitler. Which is horseshit since libertarians love fascism when given the chance to participate in it:

Hayek wrote:At times it is necessary for a country to have, for a time, some form or other of dictatorial power. As you will understand, it is possible for a dictator to govern in a liberal way. And it is also possible for a democracy to govern with a total lack of liberalism. Personally I prefer a liberal dictator to democratic government lacking liberalism.


Hoppe wrote:There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They – the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism – will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.


Rothbard wrote:Take Back the Streets: Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not "white collar criminals" or "inside traders" but violent street criminals – robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, subject of course to liability when they are in error.

Take Back the Streets: Get Rid of the Bums. Again: unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear, that is, move from the ranks of the petted and cosseted bum class to the ranks of the productive members of society.


Ludwig von Mises wrote:The deeds of the Fascists and of other parties corresponding to them were emotional reflex actions evoked by indignation at the deeds of the Bolsheviks and Communists. As soon as the first flush of anger had passed, their policy took a more moderate course and will probably become even more so with the passage of time.

This moderation is the result of the fact that traditional liberal views still continue to have an unconscious influence on the Fascists...

It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error.


The Von Mises institute today continues the interpretation:

Grandin wrote:Like Friedman, Hayek glimpsed in Pinochet the avatar of true freedom, who would rule as a dictator only for a "transitional period, " only as long as needed to reverse decades of state regulation. "My personal preference, " he told a Chilean interviewer, "leans toward a liberal dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism." In a letter to the London Times he defended the junta, reporting that he had "not been able to find a single person even in much maligned Chile who did not agree that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende." Of course, the thousands executed and tens of thousands tortured by Pinochet’s regime weren’t talking.


As does the CATO Institute that keeps fascists on its staff.

Milton Friedman's grandson concluded that the future of capitalism could not be democratic:

CATO wrote:Democracy Is Not The Answer

Democracy is the current industry standard political system, but unfortunately it is ill-suited for a libertarian state. It has substantial systemic flaws, which are well-covered elsewhere, and it poses major problems specifically for libertarians:

1) Most people are not by nature libertarians. David Nolan reports that surveys show at most 16% of people have libertarian beliefs. Nolan, the man who founded the Libertarian Party back in 1971, now calls for libertarians to give up on the strategy of electing candidates! Even Ron Paul, who was enormously popular by libertarian standards and ran during a time of enormous backlash against the establishment, never had the slightest chance of winning the nomination. His “strong” showing got him 1.6% of the delegates to the Republican Party’s national convention. There are simply not enough of us to win elections unless we somehow concentrate our efforts.

2) Democracy is rigged against libertarians. Candidates bid for electoral victory partly by selling future political favors to raise funds and votes for their campaigns. Libertarians (and other honest candidates) who will not abuse their office can’t sell favors, thus have fewer resources to campaign with, and so have a huge intrinsic disadvantage in an election.

Libertarians are a minority, and we underperform in elections, so winning electoral victories is a hopeless endeavor.

Emergent Behavior

Consider these three levels of political abstraction:

Policies: Specific sets of laws.
Institutions: An entire country and its legal and political systems.
Ecosystem: All nations and the environment in which they compete and evolve.

Folk activism treats policies and institutions as the result of specific human intent. But policies are in large part an emergent behavior of institutions, and institutions are an emergent behavior of the global political ecosystem.


This is all to say that it sounds to me like you took a test on a rigged propaganda tool, saw the results the libertarians told you that you had, and have embraced it.

Most simply stated, Communism is the doctrine of the conditions of the liberation of the proletariat.

Your ideology does not, in any way, strive for what Engels or Marx put forward for any reason they advocated it.

---

If yon are interested in pursuing communism beyond something as a libertarian/fascist slur, we have a reading list. That is part of a forum where you can discuss the topic.
#14806301
@ggyungstalinxxo You seem to be at least a moderate Communist. Do you think that the economy or society should be organized around a commune based policy?
  • If so check out subreddits like /r/communism or /r/fullcommunism and see if you agree with some of their basic Ideas. (I suggest starting with /r/communism because they are a little less radical, Even at economic: -9.86, I don't agree with some of their points).
  • If not you are probably more of a socialist -- they disagree with the formation of communes. Communists ted to be a more radical or authoritarian, but that is not always true (I've seen libertarian communists and authoritarian socialists for example). Other than that their ideas are almost identical. In that case I recommend looking at subedits like /r/socialism, or /r/latestagecapitlalism (Although both are fairly moderate, so you may also want to check out the other two listed above).

If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I sit at Economic:-9.86 and Social: anywhere between -9.23 and +4.37 (The political compass isn't the best means to represent my ideology because I often agree with anarchist on social rights, but I oppose political rights -- after the election of Trump). I am also 1.65 on the F scale.
#14806346
You are off the charts. Your manifesto is full of glaring holes. For Example.

If the state owns all business and the means of production, (your ban on free enterprise) then why say anything about taxes? There would be no such thing.

Then there is this:

- Membership in a labour union should be a requirement for having a job.


Why? To negotiate what? With the government?

- Industries and work organizations should be collectively owned, as opposed to a system of bosses and underlings.


I thought you said the government owned them. And do you really imagine a construction crew without someone calling the shots? Without someone holding people responsible? Good luck with that.

- Western democratic organizations like NATO and the UN should be avoided. Instead, this society should form international organizations with like-minded nations.


NATO is a military alliance not a "democratic organization". The UN is not inconsistent with a communist state. Belonging to the UN does not preclude alliances with like minded states.....Google 'European Union'.

- The military’s focus should be (in peacetime) helping struggling nations through peacekeeping efforts, maintaining national security, and helping local security forces when required.


You mean just like the US military sees itself now.

Your notion of government already has a name. It is called Monarchy.

I'll stop there.

Look. I know you wrote this stream-of-conscience. The key to any iconoclastic ideology is to first decide whether the icon you wish to destroy is really an icon and really should be destroyed.

You have fallen prey to sloganeering. You embrace disparate ideas that have an appeal without seeing how the pieces fall together. Instead on thinking of yourself as one of the "vanguard" try thinking of yourself as a tire changer at a tire shop. Then imagine yourself as a doctor. Try to see how this "system" would effect you.

More than anything else you have articulated a system with an armed public which has no control over the workings of the government and no mechanism for change except, ultimately, the gun in their hands.

Seriously do this. Read the constitutions of the US and then of the USSR. See what is wrong or missing from both of them.. Let us know what you think.
#14806444
@Drlee My guess is that he just hasn't had time to work out all the kinks. This happens when you talk to other people, allow them to poke holes in your argument, and then repair them. This doesn't happen over night. It is also difficult to pour out your entire ideology onto paper, and even then the complexities of human thought can make it seem contradictory. For example:
  • I am a communist, which is a materialist philosophy, but I justify it with idealist reasons.
  • I believe in a weak government with little authority, but the leaders should be chosen in the manner of a meritocracy or a technocracy (or sometimes outright Dictatorship)
  • People are entitled to social freedoms, but not economic or political ones
These combinations seem confusing at first, but I have thought them through. For instance, I propose a weak meritocracy because it resolves the problem in a democracy of unqualified voters or leaders, the problem in anarchy where there is not enough centralization to tackle large-scale problems such as climate change, and the problem in authoritarianism where power is unchecked and allowed to oppress the people.

I didn't think of any of this until I started debating on forums such as this one, and chances are neither will @ggyungstalinxxo.

You do raise several good points. Reading source material is a great way to understand how this applies to the real world (instead of hashing it out on a forum). Although I mentioned earlier I am an idealist, I do concede that sometimes ideas fail. Reading material is also good for understanding your ideology and community better, but be sure that you do not accept anything just because it is "part of your ideology." Question it, and see if it makes sense with what you already know and accept. I myself cannot point to a single person that my ideas match with -- I have taken aspects of many different communist philosophers and leaders.
#14806452
Drlee My guess is that he just hasn't had time to work out all the kinks. This happens when you talk to other people, allow them to poke holes in your argument, and then repair them. This doesn't happen over night. It is also difficult to pour out your entire ideology onto paper, and even then the complexities of human thought can make it seem contradictory. For example:


I agree. I think he was brave to post this. He is a thoughtful young man. I was trying to get him to do what you say. Learn to digest and edit. I hope he continues this thread. He has a head on his shoulders.
#14806457
Thanks for the input so far. You guys are right, I'm a young high school guy and as a result my ideology isn't that developed haha. So far, I've just been able to gleam info about ideologies from quick reads on the Internet - my local libraries don't have much in the realm of radical politics. There are some contradictory things, but tbh I didn't even realize it until you guys pointed it out. I'm just curious as to whether the general "feel" and makeup of my ideology is Communist or not. People on other forums have given me answers ranging from "intellectual-egalitarian fascism", Strasserism, moderate Communism, SJWism (lol), and National Bolshevism
#14806459
Yes, well as people keep flaunting around their titles as communists, I would remind them that historically this is an ideology that is rooted in a dialectic and material conception of history.

This is what Engels called scientific socialism.

Thus far, if ye are looking for titles, what was described in the OP and MememyselfandIJK's reply reads like what Engels called Utopian Socialism.

Despite the rather biased naming they gained from Marx and Engels, there is nothing inherently wrong about the ideology. But it's not really socialism in any Marxist sense of the word (which is generally what carries the title of "communism," fair or not).
#14806461
Communism is radical socialism AND the collectivization of society (Hence "commune-ism"). If you don't argue for collectivization, you are simply a radical socialist.

@The Immortal Goon is correct that my philosophy reflects more utopian (pre-Marxian) socialism (which may or may not argue for collectivization/communism), and I see communism more as a means of reaching post-scarcity, not an ends. Depending on who you ask I may or may not be communist. Others see communism as an end goal. We all simply agree capitalism is dehumanizing and destructive and something needs to happen (often referred to as "the revolution in communist forums").

P.S. Happy Birthday to Ho Chi Minh!
#14806462
MememyselfandIJK wrote:We all simply agree capitalism is dehumanizing and destructive and something needs to happen (often referred to as "the revolution in communist forums").


Capitalism isn't dehumanizing or destructive you are just are all suffering from penis envy so you like to pretend it is.
#14806465
@SolarCross Could you please provide evidence to the contrary instead of personal attacks?

To continue with the original topic, Socialism and Communism naturally support each other. Both of them cover very similar spectrums and they have far more in common than what they have different. They are so similar that may profesional organizations use them interchangeably. For example The Communist Party USA Platform is entitled "road to socialism USA."

My point is don't worry whether you are communist or not. If you agree that capitalism is a faulty system, both groups will welcome you with open arms.
Last edited by MememyselfandIJK on 20 May 2017 00:54, edited 2 times in total.
#14806466
MememyselfandIJK wrote:@SolarCross Could you please provide evidence to the contrary instead of personal attacks?


How about you provide evidence that not being the slave of a gang of looney leftists is dehumanising? Gulag or shopping mall? Take your pick. (disclaimer: the poster is currently thoroughly inebriated on Amarula which is some alcoholic beverage imported from africa thanks to capitalism amd therefore can not be held accoutable for insulting penisless communists.) thanks in advance for your understanding.
#14806885
MememyselfandIJK wrote:And poverty is not?


Poverty is the human and animal default, for most of human pre-history no one owned anything more than a few twigs and shaped stones. It is weird to think of poverty as dehumanising, there is nothing more human than poverty, it is where we all come from and it is where we all go back when inevitably entropy wins.

In that "capitalism"* as you call it has produced unprecedented new abundances and kinds of wealth and this is wildly out of the human and animal norm of scrabbling in the mud perpetually inches from starvation ignorant of everything then yeah capitalism is "dehumanising" but it is a dehumanising for which we all should be thankful.

If you hate it so much then the jungle, desert and tundra awaits you.

*capitalism here is assumed to be the practice of commerce and industry from the industrial revolution onwards.
#14806911
Pants-of-dog wrote:
Real hostorical examples of capitalism being dehumanising and destructive:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_dictatorship

Or you could talk to any indigenous person ever.

You're conflating governance with commerce. Your wiki page is informative it defines a "right wing dictatorship" as a dictatorship which has a "rightist" policy in contrast to leftwing dictatorships. A "rightist" policy is one that is "pro-capitalist". Right so military governors who like capitalists presumably the way any taxman loves taxpayers and shepards love sheep. From this a certain petulant creepy little shit stain thinks this is damning proof that the industrial revolution was a giant mistake and we should all go back to living in mud huts. Laughable.

"ask any indigenous" ask me then, I'm indigenous English, the industrial revolution was the great work of my ancestors and I say it was the BEST THING EVER.
Very Serious People

Really? Which "spurious realities". I[…]

What's your game plan?

Why keep trying socialism when it has never work[…]

Well the Chinese aren’t dumb. They must understand[…]

Trump's Dumb Economics

it's a great idea to vote for politicians that ar[…]