Question on a Marx's (?) quote - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Workers of the world, unite! Then argue about Trotsky and Stalin for all eternity...
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14943664
Hello! Does anybody know whether or not Karl Marx has said "There cannot be a revolution without anarchists" or something like this? (I am editing a book where the writer is attributing this quote. I try searching on the internet but I didn't find anything.)

Thank you in advance.
#14943688
Bulaba Jones wrote:What is the writer's exact source for this or is it literally just a vague attribution?

He doesn't cite any source. It must be an attribution, yet he puts quotation marks. So if you could think a similar Marx's phrase, or a phrase that could be interpreted this way, it would be helpful.

Thank you for your answer!
#14943690
As far as I can tell, Karl Marx was against anarchism, so I doubt you could attribute this quote to him.
#14943694
Godstud wrote:As far as I can tell, Karl Marx was against anarchism, so I doubt you could attribute this quote to him.

That's right, but the writer himself mentions this quote as a paradox.

I also forgot to mention that the writer says that Marx said this phrase to some socialists who had negative attitude against Intern's anarchists. Excuse me!
#14943696
Akis Karatzogiannis wrote:Ok, thank you, but I don't understand your question. How does Marx's illegitimate child relate to his quote about anarchists?


They are unrelated. I do that a lot.
#14943737
That does not sound right to me. Marx (Karl not Groucho) was not given to quips.

So would Marx have said this? Probably not. He was no fan of anarchists.

V.S. STALIN SAID: Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends.

This is a great mistake.

We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the "doctrine" of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects.

The point is that Marxism and anarchism are built up on entirely different principles, in spite of the fact that both come into the arena of the struggle under the flag of socialism. The cornerstone of anarchism is the individual, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the masses, the collective body. According to the tenets of anarchism, the emancipation of the masses is impossible until the individual is emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the individual." The cornerstone of Marxism, however, is the masses, whose emancipation, according to its tenets, is the principal condition for the emancipation of the individual. That is to say, according to the tenets of Marxism, the emancipation of the individual is impossible until the masses are emancipated. Accordingly, its slogan is: "Everything for the masses."

Clearly, we have here two principles, one negating the other, and not merely disagreements on tactics.

The object of our articles is to place these two opposite principles side by side, to compare Marxism with anarchism, and thereby throw light on their respective virtues and defects. At this point we think it necessary to acquaint the reader with the plan of these articles.

We shall begin with a description of Marxism, deal, in passing, with the Anarchists' views on Marxism, and then proceed to criticise anarchism itself. Namely: we shall expound the dialectical method, the Anarchists' views on this method, and our criticism; the materialist theory, the Anarchists' views and our criticism (here, too, we shall discuss the socialist revolution, the socialist dictatorship, the minimum programme, and tactics generally); the philosophy of the Anarchists and our criticism; the socialism of the Anarchists and our criticism; anarchist tactics and organisation — and, in conclusion, we shall give our deductions.

We shall try to prove that, as advocates of small community socialism, the Anarchists are not genuine Socialists.

We shall also try to prove that, in so far as they repudiate the dictatorship of the proletariat, the Anarchists are also not genuine revolutionaries. . . .
#14943739
Marx (Karl not Groucho) was not given to quips.

But what about this one? Surely it must be authentic.
Image
#14943742
Godstud wrote:Marx (Karl not Groucho) was not given to quips.

Marx jokes in a letter to Engels:

NB, on the supposition that the reports to date have been true. It’s possible that I shall make an ass of myself. But in that case one can always get out of it with a little dialectic. I have, of course, so worded my proposition as to be right either way.

Marx to Engels in Waterloo, near Liverpool, 15 August 1857

Akis Karatzogiannis wrote:There cannot be a revolution without anarchists

The spurious quote most likely came from Johann Most (1846-1906) - German anarchist.

My statement in reply to your inquiry of 2 April as to Karl Marx’s position with regard to the Anarchists in general and Johann Most in particular shall be short and clear...

Engels to Philipp Van Patten in New York, London, April 18, 1883


:lol:
#14943743
"A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is; it is the act whereby one part of the population imposes its will upon the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannon - authoritarian means, is such there be at all; and if the victorious party does not want to have fought in vain, it must maintain this rule by means of the terror which its arms inspire in reactionaries"

Marx and Engels on Anarchism
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/w ... /index.htm
#14943807
Thank you all for your answers! Especially Sivad. The passage that you quote is particularly interesting, although it's Engels' and not Marx's. Nevertheless it's certainly useful. Thank you so much!

Concerning Drlee's answer, I don't think that this phrase is a quip. In any case, the writer who attributes this quote clearly does not consider it a quip.
#14943814
Akis Karatzogiannis wrote:Thank you all for your answers! Especially Sivad. The passage that you quote is particularly interesting, although it's Engels' and not Marx's. Nevertheless it's certainly useful. Thank you so much!

Concerning Drlee's answer, I don't think that this phrase is a quip. In any case, the writer who attributes this quote clearly does not consider it a quip.

You obviously need to check with the writer.

Please don't misuse the Engels quote from Sivad, and call it good.
Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Meanwhile, your opponents argue that everyone e[…]

Israel-Palestinian War 2023

Were Israelis not taking Palestinian land and hom[…]

People tend to forget that the French now have a s[…]

Neither is an option too. Neither have your inte[…]