The solution to 1984 is 1973!
Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...
Politics_Observer wrote:Hey man you do whatever you want to do. You seem to have this all figured out. I'm not going to get in your way as long as you are not messing with me and my family. But bear in mind, that most people have families, even those fascists do.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Since I never claimed that, I am just going to ignore it.
Yes, you mentioned all of this several times, and I already mentioned that i agree with it.
I then pointed out how this is fine in general but not for fascism in particular.
I then asked you if there was something about fascism in particular that made it more amenable to this approach. You have yet to answer that.
I also pointed out that fascism is particular in that it is inherently about attacking the rights of others, often with violence. You have yet to address that.
I also pointed out that militant reactions have historically worked well against fascism. You also have yet to address that.
And if you wish, you can also explain how it would benefit me to compromise in any way with fascists.
Julian658 wrote:The victimhood coalition created by intersectionality constantly puts down white straight men. Sooner or later the negativity will cause that group to feel victimized and hence they will also enter into the realm of identity politics. The left is playing with fire by playing the race identity game. That is what put Trump on the White House. And I am afraid the left will go even farther left and put Trump in there for another four years. Can you imagine the last year of Trump as a lame duck POTUS when he is in his late 70's? It will be hell for the left!
If the population is majority white then most people you see in the street will be white. Why does that bother you?
SpecialOlympian wrote:You keep trying to spin it as everyone else playing the victim, but the more you talk the more it sounds like a small section of Drunk Racist Thanksgiving Uncles who are projecting onto everyone else.
Julian658 wrote:The word is used so much that it has lost its meaning?
What is racism anyway? I never understood that term.
SolarCross wrote:It has yes.
Racism could be any of the below:
1. the belief that race is a reasonable or useful taxonomy
2. the belief that it is reasonable to make qualitative value judgements on alleged characteristics of supposed races.
3. a general preference for some races over other races
4. an explicit and implacable loathing for some races
Virtually everyone is at least one of those including everyone on the left so it is a pretty meaningless accusation really. I personally would only use it to describe 4.
Amazingly and absurdly it is even used now to denounce those that criticise certain ideologies. Some on the left have classed "Islamophobia" as racism despite the fact that Islam is an ideology or religion not a race as such. No other ideologies seem to get this treatment though, not even communism which is weird and suspicious.
Resilience wrote:My impression is that the Swiss right-wing’s strategy was like the movement against reproductive choice in the United States — a series of steps designed to chip away at a woman’s right to choose. Switzerland’s established parties reacted to this offensive in the way the Democrats do in the United Sates: by going on the defensive and trying to hold on to previously-won gains. In both countries, the largest parties operate contrary to the folk wisdom that “the best defense is a good offense.”
Kleiner and her friends, however, knew better, and they launched a grassroots initiative. Their crowd-funded, volunteer-based campaign defeated the Swiss People’s party in four major referendum battles from 2016-2018.
Operation Libero did this by ignoring the established parties’ strategy of defending existing immigration policies. Instead, the movement put forward a vision that stressed Switzerland’s progressive values. In their cultural context, they framed the vote as an affirmation of their pluralist constitution, “a pillar of the liberal democracy” that the vast majority of Swiss are proud of. They were so effective at re-framing the referenda that the right wing had to change its own argument and go on the defensive. As a result, the anti-immigrant cause lost its referendum for the fifth time in November.
Resilience wrote:Khankan’s Muslim father is a refugee from Syria who came to Denmark after being imprisoned and tortured for his opposition to the regime. She knew from his experience what courage looked like. But still, the threats worried her.
One person she turned to for advice was Jacob Holdt, an internationally known Danish artist who owned the building she used for the mosque. A few months afterward, my partner and I happened to be visiting Holdt in Copenhagen. I asked the artist what happened to the threats against Khankan.
Jacob chuckled and said, “She was very surprised with my answer, but she trusted me enough to try it. She used her networking skills to track down some of the extremist leaders of the anti-immigrant movement, then she went to see them. She knocked on their doors at their homes, talked with them, let them see her courage and what she’s made of.”
The fascists were, of course, startled. What’s more, as Jacob explained, “They were so impressed by her boldness that they agreed to put the word out that she shouldn’t be hurt or threatened.”
Now the mosque is flourishing with a female co-leader Saliha Marie Fetteh, offering mixed-gender services on most days and a women’s service on Fridays. Taking the offensive seems to be the way to go.
Resilience wrote:The other favorite tactic of right-wing extremists is to threaten and use violence to increase the fear level of their opponents. Symbols are less costly than actually injuring and killing, and so they like to use symbols like clubs, tiki torches, burning crosses, or dressing in sheets or military-style uniforms. By getting there first, they set the tone, but they don’t win just by doing that. Their victory comes when their opponents respond in a like manner and try to out-intimidate the intimidators.
The threat of counter-violence reinforces the “action logic” of the fascists: we are the framers of this contest, and our opponents concede by following our lead. The confrontation has become a contest about who is best able to scare the other side into changing their behavior.
Resilience wrote:The grassroots progressive Swiss solution was not only to go on the offensive with visionary content. They re-framed, set a different tone, confounded the right-wingers, and won over and over. What’s the equivalent on the streets?
In a number of countries grassroots people have been experimenting with re-framing and sending a message that strongly contrasts with the right-wingers. In Sweden the Clowns against Racism confronted a spring rally last year of the extreme-right Nordic Resistance Movement in the town of Ludvika. The clowns became so popular, exceeding numbers that can march without a permit, that the police announced they needed to pay a fine. That announcement gained even more publicity for their refusal to follow the neo-fascist’s tactical lead.
Clowning has also shown up in Finland and Scotland. In her delightful article for Waging Nonviolence, Sarah Freeman-Woolpert describes clowning in a number of U.S. localities. In Knoxville, Tennessee, the clown brigade was so effective that the neo-Nazi group called off their demonstration several hours early.
In Wunsiedel, Germany, some merry pranksters who oppose neo-Nazi ideology came out to cheer the marchers. Why? They’d turned it into a fundraising event: local residents and businesses pledged to donate 10 euros for every meter the white supremacists marched. The funds raised went to an anti-fascist group helping people leave right-wing organizations.
Julian658 wrote:Why are you using the R word?
I am trying to help Dems beat Trump and you come up with the R word?
The word is used so much that it has lost its meaning?
What is racism anyway? I never understood that term.
Julian658 wrote:I believe the R word is used to walk away from a discussion when the user of the words has no new arguments.
SpecialOlympian wrote:"Minorities shouldn't upset white racists by existing and Democrats should be more like Republicans" is great advice thanks for the poorly formatted bad faith opinion buddy.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes. Often conservatives will get all offended and leave the discussion whenever someone points out racism.
Julian658 wrote:Conservatives get frustrated when a lefty uses the R word to avoid an honest discussion of an issue. Using the R word means insecurity, low self esteem, or not really knowing the issues.
The R word should be reserved for those that truly hate other races.
Politics_Observer wrote:Here is another alternative to combating fascism the peaceful way and effectively.
Julian658 wrote:What is a minority? If a city is 75% Hispanic, are they still the minority?
I get confused by these terms? How do you define a minority?
SolarCross wrote:The hardcore of the left just want a civil war they don't really care about racism or whatever. If "fascists" didn't exist (and they barely do as it is) they would have to invent them (which is exactly what they do most of the time). Out of a civil war they imagine they can create an authoritarian oligarchy with themselves as the masters. They want to repeat the USSR, DPRK etc.
The rest of the left are just witless dupes, "useful idiots".
Pants-of-dog wrote:This sounds like pop psychology to me, and insulting pop psychology at that.
Can you show an example of this happening?
Minorities shouldn't upset white racists by existing
The more you talk the more it sounds like a small section of Drunk Racist Thanksgiving
I prefer to use it to describe a set of beliefs and practices that have historically been used to give one race an advantage over other races.
SolarCross wrote:Fascism is basically defunct, the last vaguely fascist regime was Fransisco Franco's of Spain which petered out with his death in 1975. You might as well be quailing in terror of Napoleon Bonaparte or Genghis Khan for all the relevance to the present day. Commies were a worse threat but even they are ancient history really, well except China, DPRK and Cuba kinda sorta. If you want to fight someone fight muslims since they are an actual present day threat to our freedom and security. You all need to quit living in the past.
ThirdTerm wrote:Fascism still exists in some remote places like Australia. There was an uproar over a neo-Nazi being interviewed on Sky News. Blair Cottrell called for a portrait of Adolf Hitler to be hung in every (Australian) classroom and every school and for copies of Mein Kampf to be "issued annually" to students in local media.
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