Andropov the Reformist - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Workers of the world, unite! Then argue about Trotsky and Stalin for all eternity...
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
By Reaganite1
#405410
Starting your own business is tough but it isn't always because other rich assholes are greedy. It usually because nobody knows who you are and what your business is all about. You have to have a good marketing strategy... a solid business plan... and be willing to work like 7 days a week to make that business work. However, in the US their are Anti-Trust laws that are enforced on the bigger corporations to prevent them from using their market power to destroy competition and protect consumers.... that is where government intervention in the economy is necessary to stop other powerful corporations from using their market power to destroy competition so that others may enter the market and compete.
By Reaganite1
#405413
I mean no system is perfect... but I have been to Eastern Bloc countries in Europe and saw how communist rule basically destroyed the economy in these countries. However, though capitalism isn't perfect...and you will not ever have a perfect system...it is the best system.
By Napuljun
#405456
No, he has made remarks to this effect on a number of occasions. There is nothing particularly obscure about that information


But unfortanetly you posted only one source where he said that, and it is even true.

Andropov was a Stalinist leader. His reforms were anti-coruption type as you pointed out:


Stalin was himself curropt and perfect in intruges.

Fucking westerners praise Gorbachev and have absolutely no idea about what was going on in the Soviet Union. I bet you won't be able to tell me a dam thing about the civil wars that broke out throughout the USSR and the direct involvment of the Kremlin in those events.


The ethnic clashes that happened in the Cacauses were not so massive as to call them civil wars. Or what are you talking about than?

There must have been something wrong if he is hated by all the peoples of the CIS and everyone had their own gripes. What? He couldn't do anything right?


No but it was Yeltsin who started to provoke hate for the General Secretary for him to be more famous with the people and gain ore popularity. After 1991, Yeltsin began pumping propoganda that the problems exisisting today in Russia where Gorbachev's fault. I would not be suprised to see propoganda began from Yetlsin and his elite claiming that Gorbachev was a CIA spy, American puppet etc...

Actually Gorbachov openly Admitted that he was a CIA spy and that his goal was to destroy Communism and the USSR, in a speech in Turkey. Here is the speech:

http://www.zeminfo.ru/newsline/2003_46/ ... 04_46.html
http://www.whoiswho.ru/russian/Password ... bachev.htm
http://sengiley.narod.ru/VIPStavropol/g ... znanie.htm
http://supol.narod.ru/archive/books/iuda.htm


I don't know Russian. One of the posts you posted has already been posted by Lincoln. Try to post direct interviews instead of articles and propoganda shit.

Basically he says that he wanted to topple the dictatorship of the protalitariat, make drastic changes in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and transition towards a socialist democracy. He also blames the fall of the Soviet Union and the hardships of the people of the former USSR on Yeltsin .


Gorbachev rarely makes a sweeping statement that he wanted to destroy the dictatorship, social democracy etc... But do not forget that the term communist and social democracy were not used directly like today's purpose of use. So terms can be mixed up and the blame would be amplified.

Here he says that Russia cannot be a great power without Ukrain, Khazakhastan, the Caucasus republics....


Of course it can be, why not. That does not make him a Soviet Union crusher for saying that.

You are all forgetting one point. When Gorbachev was back to Moscow from the atttempted coup, Yeltsin and the Congress wanted to abolish the Communist Party. Only the 'anti-communist monster' of Gorbachev was against this completely to the full!
By Vassili Zaitsev
#405513
If I am not mistaken, it was also traitor Yeltsin who outlawed the KPSS and all its associated press too. Damn, and I thought the U$A was corrupt.

Every communist hates Yeltsin, thats one thing we can all agree on.
By Lincoln (m)
#405559
Hey Napuljun, answer my points.

Particularly I'm looking forward to hearing from where you infered your remarks on my alleged views on the 1989 Tiananmen demonstrations. I would also like you to explain why you deflected when you were busted not knowing basic information about the timeline of the demonstrations.

Maybe you could also explain Gorbachev and his Pizza Hut ads?
By Napuljun
#405605
Lincoln (m) wrote:Hey Napuljun, answer my points.

Particularly I'm looking forward to hearing from where you infered your remarks on my alleged views on the 1989 Tiananmen demonstrations. I would also like you to explain why you deflected when you were busted not knowing basic information about the timeline of the demonstrations.

Maybe you could also explain Gorbachev and his Pizza Hut ads?


Can you please stop concentrating on a simple, and small point instead of the discussion as a whole and the major points I tried to input?
User avatar
By N
#405629
Napuljun wrote: This is a fact. The Russians hate Gorbachev, but why?


Because all the time he pretended to be the person he was not.
His speeches were tiresome because he was skilled in blabbering for hours without saying anithing definite.
Oh, my God what a garbage were his idle talks. Only Russians could 'appreciate' it.

That's obvious for the most ppl here that he responsible for USSR collapse, and that he did it intentionally with his best friends Yakovlev and Shevarnadze.

Napuljun wrote: Becuase when exactly Yeltsin took power he made a huge media campaign blaming Gorbachev's past reforms for the problems he was causing in the country.


Excuse me, that's ludicrous hypothesis, I'm sorry again. He was hated before Yeltsin took power. The most Russians had changed their attitude tovard him in 1987-1990. First two years were enough (for many ppl)...

You are in a big mistake thinking about him as a communist.

As for Andropov, I can say nothing, sorry.
By Napuljun
#405640
I am sick of everybody repeating the same argument on and on again that he is hated, he was not a communist, that he was evil and other gibberish! The topic was about Andropov and this!

As for Andropov, I can say nothing, sorry.


was the only thing somebody had the capability of saying about him! I will not keep track of this topic any more. I am totally deluded.
User avatar
By Comrade Ogilvy
#405690
Napuljun wrote:The ethnic clashes that happened in the Cacauses were not so massive as to call them civil wars. Or what are you talking about than?


This really shows that you know nothing about it. I was there during the early stages, you don't have to tell me it wasn't war. You don't know the kind of mess that was made in late 80's and early 90s. There is 3 breakaway regions in Georgia, there was full-scale war between Azeris and Armenians. I got a ride in a Soviet Armored Personnel Carrier, which I thought was pretty cool. ;) There is Chechnya in the Northern caucasus.

You really have to understand about the aweful decisions taken by the Kremlin at the time which contributed to civil wars. I am of the opion that the Kremlin deliberately stirred shit up.
By Lincoln (m)
#405904
Napuljun wrote: I am totally deluded.


Finally. Something we both agree on.
By Reaganite1
#406182
Vassili Zaitsev wrote:If I am not mistaken, it was also traitor Yeltsin who outlawed the KPSS and all its associated press too. Damn, and I thought the U$A was corrupt.

Every communist hates Yeltsin, thats one thing we can all agree on.


How many traitors are their? Gorby a traitor...and now, Yeltsin a traitor too? Gee, I guess the entire Soviet leadership along with the Yeltsin clan all traitors too simply because they were the ones in power when the Soviet Union collapsed.
By Vassili Zaitsev
#406784
The difference between Gorby and Voda Yeltsin is that Gorby was secretive about doing away with communism in Russia, whereas Yeltsin was open about it. Only real difference also is that Gorby wanted to keep the union of 15 republics together, but without Soviet communism. But as I said before, Gorby was secretive about it, wheras Yeltsin was at least open about doing away with communism and dissolving the union.
User avatar
By fuser
#14719776
Holy Mother of Joseph Stalin, this is some necro post and that too in Russian with a counter strike reference. :eek:
#14719786
Napuljun wrote:Andropov like the heroic Gorbachev realised that the Soviet Union was not the workers haven drawn by Stalin. He realised that reforms where needed to keep the Soviet Union exisisting and so he worked for reforms. Unfortunatley he died quickly and a conservative succedded him (Chernenko).

The system was broken beyond repair. It was only possible to maintain the communist system by a regime of repression. Introducing reforms and loosening repression would in any case have led to the abolition of the communist system. Gorbachev did what had to be done.
By fokker
#14766473
I think that if Andropov didn't die so early, Soviet Union would have survived. He was willing to reform but "openness" would not be included. If he was at least partially successful it could also have affected Gorbachev.

I don't think Gorbachev was a CIA spy or that he wanted to destroy communism. Most likely fake news. In all interviews I have seen he was a staunch communist and defended Soviet Union until the end, even today. Communists should blame Yeltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich instead.

@ingliz good to know, so why have double standar[…]

...Or maybe because there are many witnesses sayin[…]

Sounds like perfect organized crime material ex[…]

Commercial foreclosures increase 97% from last ye[…]