[Dystopian Darkness]

Aren't people like Rei Musarame and Far Right Sage nationalists? they could join

[Goldberk]

Rei is a supporter of the international liberal order, an order that is destroying unique cultural identities.

[Far-Right Sage]

Thanks for not pre-emptively excluding me from the party, Goldberk

Anyway, a group such as this can only survive if its intention is to jog the noggin and serve as a platform for discussion of all ideas, movements, events, and personalities which can be tied into nationalism. An arena in which different manifestations of nationalism can be explored, whether left, right, or centrist by anyone's metric. Not as a political movement in and of itself (even a mock one) attempting to reconcile all its disparate parts. It's too broad a category to be whittled into something homogenous; some element of nationalism is so basic to human political organization that it will naturally conflict with another expression of it.

[Dagoth Ur]

Everyone knows your nationalism is genuine anti-liberal nationalism FRS.

Also I'd join but Soviet Nationalism or Proletarian Nationalism directly implodes civic/ethnic nationalism.

[Goldberk]

Well you do seem to be sliding more and more to the left these days.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

He is our "self-appointed libertarian forum guru"

[Far-Right Sage]

I think if any change in my approach is detectable it is just a strategic consideration as I have become even more violently disillusioned with the state of world affairs in the past several years. The end of the Cold War has bequeathed what is in many respects an even worse world, and depending on the country and theatre, I am willing to come to accommodation with ideologically dissimilar movements (even if the favor isn't reciprocated) including some communists who consider the national question (national communists of the sort found in the Ukrainian Communist Party and Zyuganov's branch of Russian communists is as far as I'll go, and indeed I support the former's defiance in the face of the new regime in Ukraine), if it accelerates the process to fracturing and disintegration of the neoliberal world order. I think it's more important to derail the march toward that process of global homogenization which represents death and the abyss to many of us whether our chief concern is preservation of the interests of a race, ethnicity, class, nation, or unique manner of living, before inaugurating a new round of infighting. It's better to deal with the larger opponent than war over the scraps while said opponent laughs.

Only people I'm interested in working within the confines of the liberal world to combat now is the doomsday Islamists (ISIL and the like) who are in overdrive to ruin the world at an even more feverish pace than the liberals themselves. Where Rei and I differ is that this doesn't equate to "turning the keys of the Arab nations' futures and self-determination over to a NATO-backed consortium" for me. I back indigenous resistance movements, whether European, or amongst Arabs or other non-white peoples. I began to feel sickened over the NATO operations over the skies of Belgrade in the late 1990's and what they did in Libya sealed the deal for me. Forestalling their gobbling up of the world is no less critical for me as an anti-communist than blunting Soviet hegemony. It's clear who and what is the biggest threat today. I think race is important and cannot be discounted, but there are very few racially determined groups I actively dislike on an individual level.

[velvet]

I would be interested in joining this. I'm a market socialist, but as of late have been attempting to integrate civic [more localist/regionalist than] nationalist ideals into my thinking, as I've become more and more disillusioned with class (/rational self-interest) acting as an effective enough binding force on its own. In general, I'm opposed to the post-nationalist atomisation of peoples and the growth of vulgar individualism.

[Conscript]

In general, I'm opposed to the post-nationalist atomisation of peoples and the growth of vulgar individualism.

This. Liberal-democracy is a disgusting plutocratic dystopia, a rotten & rootless international system that prevails because fascism and communism are dead. It is still no less a threat to humanity and its future, no less a false end of history. Liberal, capitalist values must die and be replaced with human ones, particularly espousing a commonly-held society, the community, and solidarity of labor.

[Decky]

My nation is the working class (but not the French or Protestants or the Dutch or anyone from an axis nation or South Africa as they are basically Dutch and fuck Russia they had paradise and they turned it down).

[Conscript]

Did they? The March Referendum suggests otherwise, even for non-Russians.

Also, Germany is pretty working class, or at least an icon of industry and (to Lenin) state capitalism, and generally has an awesome history in those areas. I think Imperial Germany might be one of the more interesting capitalist societies to exist, and not only because it was ripe for socialism.

[Dystopian Darkness]

Out of sheer curiosity - If we do create a nationalist group what would be the difference between arguing in a private space compared to a public one (me thinks sub-forums like "Paternalism & Corporatism" would suit nationalist debates pretty well)? Will we talk about how we are going to destroy liberalism and expose more extremist viewpoints?

[fuser]

No. The benefits are that you lot can discuss whatever ridiculous ideas you have without worrying about Marxists blowing out that idea.

Plus anarchists can show their true colors without feeling embarrassed in front of true leftism i.e. Marxism.

Basically what I am saying is that in private clubs, only member can read and participate.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Exactly. You guys would be free to express scathing hatred for women, share various suppressed facts like how feminists took 'er jerbs, and how awful particular ethnic groups are. Those of you who are left nationalists will end up feeling like being in a group with the likes of sbg and so on is distasteful and begin to regret being in the group. Inevitably as with other attempts at nationalist groups, which end up devolving into creeps and losers dirtying up the group with intellectual diarrhea, this group will either crash and burn or end up being deleted for inactivity (if it ever goes that far).

[Decky]

As opposed to the lefty group which is going from strength to strength (especially after we purged a certain difficult individual).

[Far-Right Sage]

If someone was however committed to and serious about launching the group (and yes, all the divisions would predictably make it unruly to manage), it would help to take the preliminary step of giving some assigned reading. Something like The Nationalism Reader by Omar Dahbour and Micheline R. Ishay could give a very basic overview but help prospective members appreciate the depth, length and breadth of nationalist thought. It briefly touches upon all manifestations and gives context to the divide between civic vs. ethnic, liberal, socialist, and fascist; secular and religious, etc. It's an extrapolation of writings from figures as diverse as Burke, Mussolini, Nehru, Garvey, and the Ayatollah Khomeini. Goldberk would appreciate the section taken from Hobsbawm.

Nationalism is but one but inevitably going to be one of the major vehicles through which throngs of young people increasingly express discontent with and rebellion against the post-modern status quo. It's important to lay the groundwork so that more who are interested and already leaning in that direction can do so wisely and productively. Knowledge is empowerment.

[Dystopian Darkness]

Exactly. You guys would be free to express scathing hatred for women, share various suppressed facts like how feminists took 'er jerbs, and how awful particular ethnic groups are. Those of you who are left nationalists will end up feeling like being in a group with the likes of sbg and so on is distasteful and begin to regret being in the group. Inevitably as with other attempts at nationalist groups, which end up devolving into creeps and losers dirtying up the group with intellectual diarrhea, this group will either crash and burn or end up being deleted for inactivity (if it ever goes that far).

Considering that liberal-capitalism is responsible for sexism and misogyny the belief that we would be hating on women is not only unfounded but completely ridiculous (and I don't see how we would be hating ethnic groups either considering it's against the forum rules)

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

FRS should be the group leader; I can't imagine a more gentlemanly National Socialist than he.

[Decky]

No, it should be Goldberk.

[Quantum]

These threads in the private members club forum always make me laugh. Comedy at its best.

Yes, they do.

Anywany, Siberian Fox has been absent for a long time and any new clubs can't be approved until he returns.