[QatzelOk]

Four in hospital after SUV hits TTC shelter

Jun 03, 2009 12:33 AM
Madeleine White
STAFF REPORTER

Four people have been taken to hospital after an SUV being pursued by police on bicycles slammed into a TTC streetcar shelter in a busy downtown intersection around 8 p.m. yesterday evening.

Traffic Services and Special Investigation Units have closed the intersection of Queen St. W. and University Ave. to investigate the crash, involving a black Chevrolet Trailblazer, which struck two pedestrians and two other vehicles.

The accident happened around 8 p.m., with many pedestrians and drivers on hand to view the chaos.

"There were tonnes of people everywhere; there were lots of cars going back and forth and there were tonnes of people crossing," said Jason Ellis, who was on the northeast corner of the intersection.

"It could have been anybody that got hit; it could have been me, it could have been anybody. It was pretty busy."

...

source

Should vehicles even be allowed into high-pedestrian areas like this one in Toronto?

[Thunderhawk]

The intersection.
The street car is traveling on Queen street.

Red: Eastbound streetcar stop.
Tan: Westbound streetcar stop (more or less)
(lack better photo)

Blue: University South bound lane
Green: University North bound lane
There is an island between the two lanes.



original picture:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/322 ... 44.jpg?v=0

During the day that section of Toronto gets a good chunk of car traffic, during rush hour it gets packed. Pedestrian traffic, though notable, is not actually that high at that intersection as many people are going north/south or take other streets east/west. There are section of Downtown Toronto that should ban car traffic (aside from police and emergency vehicles), but that intersection is not one of them.

The driver must have been under the influence or new to the area, as any driver who is accustomed to driving in that area during the day would have been fine driving there at 8pm even while pursued by cops.

[QatzelOk]

Thund, thanks for the pic.

And though you say that "anyone should be fine" driving in that area, the fact is that people are in the hospital, and could have died.

How wise is it to mix pedestrians and private cars?

[MistyTiger]

Should vehicles even be allowed into high-pedestrian areas like this one in Toronto?

I don't think so, but then a lot of money and time would have to go into rerouting traffic and changing the street plan.

Even if this was done, you can't prevent cars from not ever hitting pedestrians. There will always be bad drivers.

A better idea would be to get rid of cars and make everybody ride bikes. Plus, people would be more fit that way.

[QatzelOk]

A better idea would be to get rid of cars and make everybody ride bikes.

This is impractical.

A lot of Amish people need to drive to churches that are hundreds of km away.

[Thunderhawk]

I don't think so, but then a lot of money and time would have to go into rerouting traffic and changing the street plan.

Not really.
There are several streets in Toronto that have had their purpose changed. Many streets within the UofT grounds are University/emergency vehicles only and are otherwise pedestrian/bicycle only. Several two-dirrection 4 lane streets have been changed into unidirrectional 4 lane streets. Traffic gets disrupted for a while, but the drivers find alternative methods.

The problems are most accute from people people who are new to driving in those areas, and then get confused by the various laws, signs, norms, etc..


The "problem" is that the cars dont go away when you close a route. Ban cars from several streets in downtown Toronto (or most large cities) and they will move to other streets making those streets even more congested. Some of the traffic will actually just vanish -less roads generally means people will choose other options- but the remaining cars will make those other streets even more dangerous.

[QatzelOk]

Some of the traffic will actually just vanish -less roads generally means people will choose other options- but the remaining cars will make those other streets even more dangerous.

This isn't really true.

First of all, when downtown streets get congested, the traffic slows down. This makes it safer in many ways for cyclists.

The second thing is that the "closed" roads are often used by cyclists, giving the bike a time advantage on many urban routes.

It's a good idea to build 2-way cycle paths on 1-way car streets for this reason: to give bikes advantages that their smaller size warrants.

[Thunderhawk]

First of all, when downtown streets get congested, the traffic slows down. This makes it safer in many ways for cyclists.

An increase in congestion such that the cars slow substanially is usually pretty rare.

Many streets in downtown Toronto have been closed for one reason or another. When its an off periods the flow redirects elsewhere - no congestion problems, just more cars traveling at about the same speed. When its a main artery thats closed it can cause other arteries and side streets to become packed.

The smaller streets by Ryerson University get noticably more traffic whenever the main streets are closed/delayed for any reason at any time of day. However, it never gets packed so traffic keeps moving. Combine that with drivers expecting to drive quickly (as they do on the arteries) and it makes the side streets more dangerous.

[Potemkin]

Four people have been taken to hospital after an SUV being pursued by police on bicycles slammed into a TTC streetcar shelter in a busy downtown intersection around 8 p.m. yesterday evening.

Awesome.

[Thunderhawk]

PS.

There are a couple arteries that are absolutely necessaries for proper flow, the highways and a couple leading West-East through Mississauga (suburb of Toronto). Those being shut down for construction or an accident would cause congestion along other routes, but those dont shut down as often.

[jaycola]

That picture is shot from the building my wife works in.
Pedestrian traffic is not all that heavy in the evenings.
The area is dominated by hospitals and office buildings.
Thugs stole a car and smashed it. There is only one group that deserves any blame.

[QatzelOk]

An increase in congestion such that the cars slow substanially is usually pretty rare.

In suburbia, you're right.

But in the well-gridded inner city, congestion often means you can weave effortlessly between parked (clogged) cars.

Likewise, when cars can't move, it gives bikes a commuting advantage.