[Pants-of-dog]

Fucking hypocrites.
Shut down your computer(made from oil products and toxic chemicals) that uses 800W of power before you start criticizing anyone. Anyone can sit there and find faults in others but unless you are really that much better, which varies by person to person and can be debatable, then your preaching and sarcasm is just that.

No. I do not have to live a perfectly non-polluting lifestyle in order to (correctly) point out that automobile dependence is a leading cause of air pollution.

It may be hypocrisy (as if that mattered), but that has nothing to do with the truth value of the preceding statement.

By the way, I do not use a personal automobile for any of my daily needs, and I only use polluting public transport about once a month. I get all my fruits and vegetables from a local farmer, and I try to pûrchase as much as possible locally. I think that if I can pick up my kids, get groceries, commute to work, and even take trips out of town without a car, then I have earned the right to bitch about people driving their cars into my neighbourhood and polluting it.

[Suska]

wow. do you also have alpfalfa growing out of your head? we could call you chiapants!

oh thats hypocritical... I use goats instead of lawn mowers

[QatzelOk]

lawn mowers

Fucking termite culture.

[Godstud]

It's also an excellent way of avoiding listening to people on the Internet telling you that they don't admire your large car, and that they find you an amoral anachronism for tearing around boring suburban corners in your vehicle.

See your biggest problem is that you generalize so much that your argument becomes nothing but vague references to what you think everyone's like, which is generally wrong. It's funny that most people I know are very aware of the environment and make efforts to recycle, save energy and other things that reduce carbon footprint and such. My compact car is 6 years old and still getting 50mpg+ while having low emissions. It's neither fashionable, nor large. maybe you should, in general, stop making generalizations about individuals, like me for instance, which you tend to do with regularity. Is trolling your only capacity?

I realize the g-forces provide you with one of the few joys of suburbia, and that you have no way of expressing yourself at work other than with your possessions.

You don't know shit about what most people are like, do you? Maybe because you think everyone is concerned with possessions so they can die with the most toys. I, honestly, don't know nor associate with people who are that materialistic, do you? If so maybe you should stop. You sound like a bitter old man.

But for goodness sake, don't pretend that your current lifestyle is some kind of idylic existence that anyone should admire.

And what should I admire about yours? You ride a bike? WOW! You're such a trend-setter! I'll bet the pollution caused by heating your apartment( is it gas or oil there?) in winter far exceeds the emissions from my car in a year, so maybe you shouldn't preach so much!

Please, don't pretend your commuter-addiction is some kind of acceptable way to live.

Right back at you. Please, don't pretend that your self-righteous arrogant soap box preaching addiction is that special and that your lifestyle is anything to be admired.

No. I do not have to live a perfectly non-polluting lifestyle in order to (correctly) point out that automobile dependence is a leading cause of air pollution.

Don't object. I'm just generalizing just like Qatzel. The thing is that you have to recognize that not everyone does things the same way and that you making such a claim against my "polluting lifestyle" doesn't mean much unless you recognize that there are different levels. most people I know are trying to live their life while trying to make the world still livable for the next generations(as am I). That everyone is not the same only means that everyone is not in the same situation, nor are they the same, which is fucking obvious to any but the most idiotic.

[QatzelOk]

I'll bet the pollution caused by heating your apartment( is it gas or oil there?) in winter far exceeds the emissions from my car in a year, so maybe you shouldn't preach so much!

It's electric. Hydro-electric. Amen.

You lose.

**Godstud falls into a gurgling pool of lawn chemicals and plastic flamingos with sharp teeth**

[yiwahikanak]

I'd like to keep oil around for the important things like plastics.

Your SUV doesn't deserve them.

[yiwahikanak]

I think it's hilarious that people addicted to cars honestly cannot allow themselves to consider life without a vehicle. When presented with those of us who manage quite fine...who have children, get said children to school, get ourselves to work, and do all our necessary errands without once relying on a car...the car addict's brain shuts down and denial sets in.

Once more, you chose to organise your life around cars. When you attempt to justify yourself with trite phrases like 'but I NEEED a car to get to work', all you are doing is affirming that fact; the fact that you made your decisions based on your possession and use of a vehicle.

Make more intelligent choices. It's not difficult.

[yiwahikanak]

:lol: Fucking hypocrites.
Shut down your computer(made from oil products and toxic chemicals) that uses 800W of power before you start criticizing anyone. Anyone can sit there and find faults in others but unless you are really that much better, which varies by person to person and can be debatable, then your preaching and sarcasm is just that.

You seem to forget the fact that those of us without cars will always be using more energy than you.

Which makes us not hypocrites, but less polluting.

Always.

[Godstud]

I forgot how perfect people who think they are so environmentally friendly really think they are. Just go on believing that! You're the ones deluding yourselves.

Everyone lives in different situations, and were you in mine, you'd probably need to have a car as well(for health reasons I cannot even ride a bike). It's easy for you to say you pollute less but it's not really something we can measure, so maybe you shouldn't say you pollute less, hmmm? Using a couple hundred litres of fuel each year in a small fuel efficient car(50+ mpg), like mine, is not the same as burning thousands in an SUV. Get off your high horse. Don't talk about making "intelligent choices" when you aren't even faced with the same choices to begin with.

[QatzelOk]

Don't talk about making "intelligent choices" when you aren't even faced with the same choices to begin with.

Don't you live in a free country?

Or is suburbia the only place you are allowed to live by your masters?

Follow-up question: Who are your masters and why did you let them lead you to a suburban consumption lifestyle?

[Cartertonian]

Who are your masters and why did you let them lead you to a suburban consumption lifestyle?

My 'masters' are my wife and kids - and they don't want to have to live cheek-by-jowl with the great unwashed of humanity that seem inexplicably to want to cram themselves into smaller and smaller spaces in the city.

[QatzelOk]

My 'masters' are my wife and kids

How much commercial media do they absorb?

[Pants-of-dog]

Don't object. I'm just generalizing just like Qatzel. The thing is that you have to recognize that not everyone does things the same way and that you making such a claim against my "polluting lifestyle" doesn't mean much unless you recognize that there are different levels. most people I know are trying to live their life while trying to make the world still livable for the next generations(as am I). That everyone is not the same only means that everyone is not in the same situation, nor are they the same, which is fucking obvious to any but the most idiotic.

Modelling your debating style on QatzelOk's may not be the most intelligent approach.

Of course I recognise that there are different levels. In fact, I believe that I am pointing out that you are at a level where you pollute far more than I. The reason you are at this level is because you made choices (or more likely, did what everyone else was doing without thinking about it) that led to you living a lifestyle that is dependent on having a car. I made different choices.

This is why we are at different levels.

My 'masters' are my wife and kids - and they don't want to have to live cheek-by-jowl with the great unwashed of humanity that seem inexplicably to want to cram themselves into smaller and smaller spaces in the city.

Hello. My children are part of that "great unwashed" who like living near their school, friends, parents' work, parks, museums, galleries, markets, and other places that surround them.

They are not the only people who like to avail themselves of such things. Every day, thousands of people drive in to our city to enjoy these things. Unfortunately, they do so with machines that have been shown to increase the risk of pulmonary disease in children.

So, please go ahead and respect the wishes of your wife and kids. Live wherever you wish, but please limit yourselves to the services that are located in your area, as urban dwellers do. Or if you must come into our urban environment (as so many suburban people seem compelled to each and every day), please do us the decency of leaving behind your pollution machine. My kids would appreciate the reduced risk of lung cancer, you see.

[yiwahikanak]

No matter how fuel efficient your car is, it is not more fuel efficient than my car-less form of transportation. Ergo, there is no way you do not pollute more than I do.

As Pants-of-Dog has pointed out, if you choose to live in areas that are isolated and do not have access to essential goods and services, have the decency not to 'shit' in my backyard with your 'oh so necessary', polluting, disease causing, vehicle.

No amount of justification on your part hides the fact that you made poor choices, which directly impact the health of others on a scale far beyond anything a smoker could imagine (as one small example).

[Jarlaxle]

Again: There is no public transportation to where I work. There are no houses to speak of for several miles. (I work in an industrial park.) But hey, if you want to live next to a big industrial park, go for it! Enjoy the loud machinery at 5am and the semis at 11pm. I'll pass.

I live in a 155-year-old house on five-plus acres in a rural area with no other houses visible. I love it. I'd rather eat a bullet than live in a large city.

[Godstud]

It seems cars are the only way to pollute.

Choose to live in an area that is isolated? I live in the god-damned middle of the city! Downtown Surrey, BC!

As Pants-of-Dog has pointed out, if you choose to live in areas that are isolated and do not have access to essential goods and services, have the decency not to 'shit' in my backyard with your 'oh so necessary', polluting, disease causing, vehicle.

Even so, Industrial parks are not in the downtown of the city because the NIMBY(Not In My Back Yard) people, like YOU, don't like loud noises, or smells, so they have to be put on the edges of the city, beyond public transport range. The whiny NIMBY person is the primary cause of these jobs being beyond the range of public transport in the first place! This sets many jobs in a position where cars are an absolute necessity! Now, unless you move these jobs back into the city(into your back yard) these jobs are going to remain. YOUR poor choices are the cause, not mine.

Your backyard... If you even live like you say you do, you don't HAVE a backyard! You talk about justification but are absolutely clueless. You don't even understand what NEED means. If you actually do understand the word, then please explain to me how I am to get to my workplace without an automobile. As for justification... I need to eat and have shelter. That's the justification for working there!

My choices put food on my table and allow me a modest lifestyle. Quality of living is a factor, as Jarlaxle points out.

[yiwahikanak]

I chose to live near all essential goods and services. I also choose to work close to home. I can do that because I chose to follow a career path that would not take me out of town.

Choices. You chose to work in an industrial park.

When I did need to get further than public transport would get me, I took public transport to the 'end of the line' and biked the rest of the way. I worked in industrial parks three times; once as a telemarketer (shudder), once in a cafe serving the industrial park workers, and once as a secretary. Never once did I have to rely on personal auto transport to get there...and Edmonton is a hell of a lot colder in the winter than Surrey.

But you won't see that as a possible solution, because you have convinced yourself you need your car, no matter what. Apparently you have also convinced yourself that your own delusion (NEED NEED CAR NEED) is the fault of anyone but yourself.

[yiwahikanak]

Again: There is no public transportation to where I work. There are no houses to speak of for several miles. (I work in an industrial park.) But hey, if you want to live next to a big industrial park, go for it! Enjoy the loud machinery at 5am and the semis at 11pm. I'll pass.

I live in a 155-year-old house on five-plus acres in a rural area with no other houses visible. I love it. I'd rather eat a bullet than live in a large city.

Since you hate the city so much, I sure hope you stay out of it with your pollution, disease causing vehicle.

If you choose to live outside of the city, without access to employment or essential goods and services, then you need to find ways to live with your choices that do not include spewing toxic chemicals into the air. No one is forcing you to live so far away from anything...but you should absolutely have to deal with the decision you have made. Eventually, I believe fuel prices will become prohibitive enough that people like you will be unable to maintain your lifestyle. It will no longer be profitable to commute to your industrial park job and you will be faced with a life-altering choice.

Luckily, those of us who aren't so short-sighted, and incredibly selfish, have already made decisions that vastly reduce our reliance on petrochemicals. A choice which happily coincides with less environmental damage, and less direct hazard to human health.

[Godstud]

When I did need to get further than public transport would get me, I took public transport to the 'end of the line' and biked the rest of the way. I worked in industrial parks three times; once as a telemarketer (shudder), once in a cafe serving the industrial park workers, and once as a secretary. Never once did I have to rely on personal auto transport to get there...and Edmonton is a hell of a lot colder in the winter than Surrey.
But you won't see that as a possible solution, because you have convinced yourself you need your car, no matter what. Apparently you have also convinced yourself that your own delusion (NEED NEED CAR NEED) is the fault of anyone but yourself.

1) I work as a Safety Coordinator at a plant, which is not a menial labourer position. My job starts at 6AM.
2) Bus routes END @15km from the Industrial park and don't even run at regular hours. The bus route only STARTS running at 7AM, and ends at 11AM. So much for public transport.
3) Weather aside, I cannot even bike 1km due to nerve damage in my back. I lived in Edmonton. I know the weather there, smartass.

So how would YOU get to this job? If you say you wouldn't take it, then you are obviously selfish and short-sighted. You'd not rob your children of food and shelter just so you could be self-righteous, would you? Climb off your bullshit soap box and try to be realistic. Your food, and amenities are brought to YOU by automobiles, so you're not blameless.

[Cartertonian]

if you must come into our urban environment (as so many suburban people seem compelled to each and every day), please do us the decency of leaving behind your pollution machine.

As a family, we never go to the city - it has nothing to offer us.

For myself, regrettably, I have to work in a city during the week. If I didn't drive my car, it would take me half a day or more on public transport, instead of two and a half hours in the convenient comfort and privacy of my own car, to make the journey.