Why are car addicts so afraid? - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By yiwahikanak
#13522081
Godstud wrote:1) I work as a Safety Coordinator at a plant, which is not a menial labourer position. My job starts at 6AM.
2) Bus routes END @15km from the Industrial park and don't even run at regular hours. The bus route only STARTS running at 7AM, and ends at 11AM. So much for public transport.
3) Weather aside, I cannot even bike 1km due to nerve damage in my back. I lived in Edmonton. I know the weather there, smartass.

So how would YOU get to this job? If you say you wouldn't take it, then you are obviously selfish and short-sighted. You'd not rob your children of food and shelter just so you could be self-righteous, would you? Climb off your bullshit soap box and try to be realistic. Your food, and amenities are brought to YOU by automobiles, so you're not blameless.
Truthers love the truth, but hate the facts.


1)I don't see how your job being a 'menial labourer position' or not would impact your need for transportation to and from it.

2) Bus routes ENDED quite far from the Industrial Park I referred to as well. No bus ran through the area I needed to get to, so I would get off at the closest transit station, pick up my shitty bike that I left locked up there, and take it the rest of the way. Edmonton being the not-so-friendly city it is towards cyclists, I did the unforgivable and took the sidewalks, but they were empty anyway since hardly anyone bothers walking or cycling in that city as it is. This was in the middle of winter, as well. Shockingly, I always made it to work on time.

So much for your excuses about public transport. People in this city (Montreal) regularly commute distances equal to or exceeding 15 km one way, (and back again) every day.

Not to mention that bus routes are very much based on demand...and if no one is making their need known, the lie of 'no demand' is left to act as the truth.

3) That sucks. So have you already bought a Prius, or is that on your xmas wish list? Because nerve damage or no, you have a responsibility to reduce your emissions, especially if you choose to continue working and living so far away from better modes of transportation.

I am well aware how my goods are provided to me. None of which has anything to do with commuter vehicles. Since commuter vehicles provide me with no benefit, it is commuter vehicles I wish banned. I would like ground transport to be augmented (and eventually replaced for long distances) with rail transportation. Delivery vehicles would have to bring in good from the trainyards, but with commuter vehicles gone, this would still be an extremely reduced amount of pollution...not to mention that I would also support strict enforcement of emissions standards on these vehicles.

This would absolutely result in a higher cost for goods and services, which I would willingly pay in order to not have the residents of my city exposed to cancer (and other disease) causing emissions.

The selfish, are those who ignore all of these possibilities in favour of the 'comfort' and 'convenience ' of their self-chosen commuter-based lifestyles.
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522083
Cartertonian wrote:As a family, we never go to the city - it has nothing to offer us.

For myself, regrettably, I have to work in a city during the week. If I didn't drive my car, it would take me half a day or more on public transport, instead of two and a half hours in the convenient comfort and privacy of my own car, to make the journey.


There are at least three things you could do to considerably reduce your emissions and still make it to your city job.

1) Car pool, if this is possible. To the outskirts of the city, not to a specific job location.
2) Drive to the outskirts of the city (nearest transit station), park, and take public transport the rest of the way.
3) Ensure you have a low-emissions vehicle.

Have you done, or considered any of these things, and if not, why?
User avatar
By Cartertonian
#13522090
1. Car pool with whom? No-one I know lives where I live and travels down to where I work. Besides, I travel down to the city very early on the Monday morning and return home on the Thursday evening, I think it highly unlikely I would ever find anyone with the same commuting pattern.

2. It takes me roughly two hours to travel to the outskirts of the city, and then a further 30 mins to complete the journey. If I had to do as you suggest, the latter part of my journey would take longer than the first part. I leave home at 0500 as it is. Besides, whilst there may (I don’t know) be a ‘Park ‘n’ Ride’ scheme, I think it unlikely that they will allow overnight parking.

3. Who’s paying for this low-emission vehicle? I drive a six year old diesel ‘compact’ as you would probably call it. I can’t afford a newer car, let alone a Prius or other hybrid.
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522106
Sounds like you don't have the means to live outside the city then. Most people can't. I don't understand why you think you should be excused for your polluting behaviour simply because you've made the choice to live somewhere so far from work.
By Pants-of-dog
#13522154
Cartertonian wrote:As a family, we never go to the city - it has nothing to offer us.

For myself, regrettably, I have to work in a city during the week. If I didn't drive my car, it would take me half a day or more on public transport, instead of two and a half hours in the convenient comfort and privacy of my own car, to make the journey.

:D


I don't think that telling me that you choose to spew toxic chemicals where children play is a laughing matter that should require a smiley.

I think that your choice to value your comfort and privacy over the health of children is actually quite sad.
User avatar
By Cartertonian
#13522169
Neither of you two knows what my circumstances are, but be sure of this...under no circumstances would I blight my children's existence by forcing them to live in a city. My job requires that I work in the city, but it is not within my employer's remit to require my family to reside there.

Look, if you were saying ‘wouldn’t it be nice if we had clean, safe, well-ordered cities that offered fast, efficient, multi-layered integrated transport and a pleasant living and working environment?’ then I’d say, ‘Yes, it would be nice, and I might even contemplate living in such a place.’ But the bare facts of the matter are that we don’t have such places and I don’t want my kids growing up in one of the stinking, foetid, cesspits of humanity that are our cities.
By Pants-of-dog
#13522176
Neither of you two knows what my circumstances are, but be sure of this...under no circumstances would I blight my children's existence by forcing them to live in a city. My job requires that I work in the city, but it is not within my employer's remit to require my family to reside there.

Look, if you were saying ‘wouldn’t it be nice if we had clean, safe, well-ordered cities that offered fast, efficient, multi-layered integrated transport and a pleasant living and working environment?’ then I’d say, ‘Yes, it would be nice, and I might even contemplate living in such a place.’ But the bare facts of the matter are that we don’t have such places and I don’t want my kids growing up in one of the stinking, foetid, cesspits of humanity that are our cities.


I never said you should live in the city.

In fact, I explicitly said otherwise.

What I said was that next time you drive into the city (which you hate so much but visit so frequently), you can leave your car outside so that kids don't have to breath the pollution you cause.

Let's face it: one of the main reasons why my city is so dirty (like other cities) is because people like you drive into it each day.
User avatar
By Cartertonian
#13522201
I drive into it on a Monday...and out of it again, like a cat with it's tail on fire, on a Thursday.

If there were a park-n-ride system in place, where I could be confident that my car would be secure from Mon to Thurs, and could whisk me to (not a mile walk away from, but to) my destination in the city quickly and efficiently, I might use it. To the best of my knowledge, however, no such system is in place in the city where I work.
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522206
Cartertonian wrote:Neither of you two knows what my circumstances are, but be sure of this...under no circumstances would I blight my children's existence by forcing them to live in a city. My job requires that I work in the city, but it is not within my employer's remit to require my family to reside there.

Look, if you were saying ‘wouldn’t it be nice if we had clean, safe, well-ordered cities that offered fast, efficient, multi-layered integrated transport and a pleasant living and working environment?’ then I’d say, ‘Yes, it would be nice, and I might even contemplate living in such a place.’ But the bare facts of the matter are that we don’t have such places and I don’t want my kids growing up in one of the stinking, foetid, cesspits of humanity that are our cities.


I am glad you value the health of your children. I also value the health of your children, and of my children. You, however, don't appear to value the health of my children, which is worrisome. As has been pointed out, you are directly contributing to the health risks MY children face.

I live in a stunningly beautiful neighbourhood, directly across from lovely park. The architecture in this city is absolutely breath-taking. The residents of my neighbourhood, and of the last Montreal neighbourhood I resided in, are lovely people. I have immediate access to fair trade, organic goods for an affordable price. I can choose among any number of varieties of international cuisines. My children go to an art-centered school within the public system, and if they so chose, could engage in a nearly unlimited number of affordable extracurricular activities directly within walking or transit-distance. We can visit museums and other cultural centres for free.

I hardly live in such an upleasant place as you describe cities to be. It seems to me that your prejudices overwhelm your ability to use logic, or reason, and you resort instead to a form of small-minded protectionism which includes only yourself and your family, while completely ignoring the rest of humanity. I believe that level of selfishness and narcissism is intensely scary, and only maintainable if you continue to lie to yourself about the impact of your lifestyle choices.

One day, your children may end up in an urban environment. And you will have done nothing to ensure they will enter an urban environment where their health will not be immediately threatened by toxic pollutants. Luckily, other people have the welfare of all our children in mind, regardless of the stupidity of their own parents, and are working to ensure that people like you cannot continue to endanger their lives.
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522208
You are away from your family for four days out of the week?

And you believe this is the best choice?

I am constantly amazed at how people can make decisions like these.
User avatar
By Cartertonian
#13522222
yiwahikanak wrote:It seems to me that your prejudices overwhelm your ability to use logic, or reason, and you resort instead to a form of small-minded protectionism which includes only yourself and your family, while completely ignoring the rest of humanity.

Yet you acknowledge that I spend 4 days a week in a city and therefore can see with my own eyes what an unpleasant place it is?

And you wrote:You are away from your family for four days out of the week?

And you believe this is the best choice?

I am constantly amazed at how people can make decisions like these.

Again, you don't know my circumstances, but suffice to say that our current arrangements will prevail until I leave the Armed Forces, at which point my family will already be settled and stable in the community to which I will then be able to return as a full-time resident.

The itinerant lifestyle of the military is very hard on kids. My children have lost count of the number of schools they've been to over the years and it was time to stop all that nonesense and settle them down in one fixed location while I serve out my remaining time.
By Pants-of-dog
#13522241
I made the choice to have a job that allows me to live with my children and provide them with stability, and that would allow me to bike to work every day.

Apparently, you did not make that choice.

That's fine. I do not judge people for making choices that differ from mine.

However, every time you drive into the city, you expose others to pollution caused by your choices. Do you not think it is a bit much that other people have to live with the negative consequences of your choices?
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522245
Rural and urban lifestyles both have ups and downs. I grew up rural, and I won't pretend life was all rosy there.
User avatar
By Cartertonian
#13522248
POD wrote:Do you not think it is a bit much that other people have to live with the negative consequences of your choices?


Whereas, previously, I wrote:I drive into it on a Monday...and out of it again, like a cat with it's tail on fire, on a Thursday.

Now, of course, I could live within commuting distance - and drive in every single day. But no, unlike the majority of the commuter workforce, I only foul the city air twice a week.

As you might gather, my circumstances are atypical. If I were starting with a blank piece of paper, I wouldn't be living my life the way I am now. That's actually less self-indulgent and more pertinent than you probably think at first glance. Central to my point is the fact that we can fantasise about how we might like the World to be, but we still have to live in it as it is...and in the circumstances in which we find ourselves.
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522252
If everyone believed we simply had to live in the circumstances we found ourselves in, nothing would ever change.

Everyone has 99 reasons they can't change their lives. Some of us don't bother counting, and just make the changes.
User avatar
By yiwahikanak
#13522274
I wish you well with that.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#13522354
About his wonderful suburban existence, Cartertonian wrote:No-one I know lives where I live

I know all my neighbors.

Suburbia is the incubator of urban alienation. It destroyed so much social capital.
User avatar
By Cartertonian
#13522363
Tsk tsk. Baaad Qatz, you naughty troll.

You know perfectly well that I wrote:No-one I know lives where I live and (my bold) travels down to where I work.


As you and I have discussed before, I know all my neighbours too, in the rural village where I live, but none of them have to go and work where I work. ;)
By Jarlaxle
#13522751
I know most of my nearby neighbors...two do not work at all (one retired, one disabled), one works but does not commute (works from home office), one works on the road most of the time (salesman). None of the others work anywhere near where I do, though one works near my wife but the hours aren't compatible. Carpooling for me is effectively impossible anyway, due to a schedule at work that varies day to day...I was finished by 3pm Monday, about 6:30 today, possibly around 7 tomorrow, probably about 5:30 Thursday, and about 6:30-7 Friday. I can easily work six different shifts in six days (and have many times). I've been finished up by 1:30 and I've been working until after 8pm.

There is no public transportation whatsoever where I live. The closest public transportation to where I work is a train station about 5 miles away, with trains going in the wrong direction. The generally-disgusting state of the MBTA means that I will hitch-hike before I will ride their trains or buses.

I drive into a city for two reasons: a Red Sox game at Fenway, or if I'm being paid to.
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