Why Do Airlines Use Old Planes? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14248571
I have seen that some airlines of the world are using planes over thirty years of age. Surely this is not safe? I can understand the reason for those like Iran Air which faces sanctions and cannot buy new planes or parts, however for other airlines which do not face such restrictions it is hard to understand. Do they not consider the dangers of flying such old aircraft? Even if they can be refurbished and maintained, the air frame will age and be subjected to metal stresses.
#14248589
Political Interest wrote:I have seen that some airlines of the world are using planes over thirty years of age. Surely this is not safe? I can understand the reason for those like Iran Air which faces sanctions and cannot buy new planes or parts, however for other airlines which do not face such restrictions it is hard to understand. Do they not consider the dangers of flying such old aircraft? Even if they can be refurbished and maintained, the air frame will age and be subjected to metal stresses.

This is actually an interesting point you mentioned. US and EU has sanctioned Iran Aviation industry. Iran can not buy Airplane parts. There were some accidents with huge death tolls.
Then Mr. Obama sends new year message to Iranian people. What a hypocrite politicians!!
#14248612
justice4all wrote:This is actually an interesting point you mentioned. US and EU has sanctioned Iran Aviation industry. Iran can not buy Airplane parts. There were some accidents with huge death tolls.
Then Mr. Obama sends new year message to Iranian people. What a hypocrite politicians!!


To make matters worse there have been actual accidents in Iran caused by this inability to properly maintain the planes. It is sad because I hear Iran has some of the best pilots in the world and Iran Air was a very good airline prior to 1979.
#14248632
I have actually flown on Iran Air a number of times. Everytime the plane lands safely the predominantly Iranian passengers give a standing ovation to the pilots (I'm not joking), something I have never seen on any other airline. It is rather endearing.

Iran Air pilots are probably as good as they are because their planes are old clunkers. It is easy to fly a plane where everything works and has the latest gadgets but it takes real skill to fly a plane where the rudder sticks, the flaps pop up when they shouldn't and the engines randomly cut out...
Last edited by SolarCross on 04 Jun 2013 16:37, edited 1 time in total.
#14248651
taxizen wrote:I have actually flown on Iran Air a number of times. Everytime the plane lands safely the predominantly Iranian passengers give a standing ovation to the pilots (I'm not joking), something I have never seen on any other airline. It is rather endearing.


This is actually quite common in a few countries.

taxizen wrote:Iran Air pilots are probably as good as they are because their planes are old clunkers. It is easy to fly a plane where everything works and has the latest gadgets but it takes real skill to fly a plane where the rudder sticks, the flaps are pop up when they shouldn't and the engines randomly cut out...


Did you really see these things? Are Iranian planes really in such shocking condition?
#14248699
Political Interest wrote:Did you really see these things? Are Iranian planes really in such shocking condition?

Ha.. well I was using some poetic licence, inside the passenger cabin you don't see much of what's going on with the plane. There have been shudders and grinding noises which I couldn't altogether put down to turbulence.

I hear that Iranians are getting good at manufacturing their own clones of spare parts so an unintended side-effect of the stupid sanctions may be helping Iran develop its aerospace industry. There may come a day when they are making so many of their own parts that they could just as well make their own planes.
#14248709
Political Interest wrote:I have seen that some airlines of the world are using planes over thirty years of age. Surely this is not safe? I can understand the reason for those like Iran Air which faces sanctions and cannot buy new planes or parts, however for other airlines which do not face such restrictions it is hard to understand. Do they not consider the dangers of flying such old aircraft? Even if they can be refurbished and maintained, the air frame will age and be subjected to metal stresses.


If the cost of buying new planes/repairing existing ones is x and the cost of a crash once in a while is <x then it's profitable to fly inadequate planes. Only one bastard airline has to pick up on this and fly inadequate planes, this will force all the others to join in this practice or go bankrupt (to be replaced by new airlines that are willing to fly inadequate planes). It's cold hard business and it's why aviation agencies exist in places like the US and Europe (though the libertarians on this forum will tell you those agencies exist solely to bully heroic job creators).
#14248718
Which is why Aeroflot has a better safety record than Luftansa.. oh wait!
Any business that is taxed will have less money for re-investment, and the more they are robbed the harder it is to stay in business without cutting corners and taking risks.
#14248732
taxizen wrote:Did you really see these things? Are Iranian planes really in such shocking condition?

Ha.. well I was using some poetic licence, inside the passenger cabin you don't see much of what's going on with the plane. There have been shudders and grinding noises which I couldn't altogether put down to turbulence. [/quote]

I see, fair enough. Poetic license.

When you say shudders, you felt the plane shake? How frequent were they throughout the flight? Also how big was the plane, was it one of those old Boeing 747's from the 1970s?

Was turbulence any worse?

taxizen wrote:I hear that Iranians are getting good at manufacturing their own clones of spare parts so an unintended side-effect of the stupid sanctions may be helping Iran develop its aerospace industry. There may come a day when they are making so many of their own parts that they could just as well make their own planes.


Indeed, the Chinese were also good at making their own planes. At one point by the end of Mao Zedong's reign they were developing their own commercial jetliner which looked suspiciously similar to a Boeing 707.

The Shanghai Y-10: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Y-10

Poelmo wrote:If the cost of buying new planes/repairing existing ones is x and the cost of a crash once in a while is <x then it's profitable to fly inadequate planes. Only one bastard airline has to pick up on this and fly inadequate planes, this will force all the others to join in this practice or go bankrupt (to be replaced by new airlines that are willing to fly inadequate planes). It's cold hard business and it's why aviation agencies exist in places like the US and Europe (though the libertarians on this forum will tell you those agencies exist solely to bully heroic job creators).


This must be why in countries where safety standards are less strict many airlines are unsafe.
#14248759
Political Interest wrote:When you say shudders, you felt the plane shake? How frequent were they throughout the flight? Also how big was the plane, was it one of those old Boeing 747's from the 1970s?

Flying the London - Tehran route I think they were all 747s. On internal flights they were mostly some kind of Tupolev or Antonov.
Iran is actually manufacturing an Antonov clone now -link
#14294585
Thats totally normal way of the life of a plane. Normally a plane is ordered from a 1st rated airline like a japanese airline, or american airline, or european airline. They fly i up to 10 years then the plane is sold to 2nd grade airlines. Mostly latin american ones or south east asia. They again fly the plane up to ten years. After that they sell the plane to 3rd grade airlines, mostly from very poor airlines from africa or central asian nations. It costs much money to buy a new airplane. Japan Airlines and ANA pay up to 150 million $ for a new Boeing 787. Not many airlines can afford that.

There are also other cases like the mentioned Iran Air. It is a shame and crime that such sanctions are put on Iran. The only thing it achieves are dead people.

It should also been mentioned that age isn´t really an issue when the airplane is under good care. Poblem is, that that care also costs much money...
#14553359
The airplanes are constantly upgraded and have parts replaced. I don't see the problem. Things like newer and more efficient engines and electronics get fitted to older plans all the time.

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