[U28628]

I'm a member of the US army

I first joined the navy in 2003

then I served 3 months in afghanistan and i'm currently serving at Aviano Air Base (US airbase in northeastern Italy)

[...VP: DELETE - Trolling...]

Well my question is simple: suppose one day your social-democrats/reformists idea to impose socialism by democratics mean become reality

Suppose people democratically elect an anti-capitalist leader and private property is abolished

Do you really think we will stand still and shut up?? Why do you think the army simply will standstill instead to immediatly restore the old order [...VP: DELETE - Trolling...]

[VP NOTE: Since this discussion may head in a good direction I will let it be. Trolling, however, is not tolerated in the Socialist sub-forum. Irrelevant comments have been edited out.]

[Preston Cole]

Some in the army will react, others won't, just like they did during the Spanish Civil War. Not everyone in the military is patriotic. Therefore, the entirety of a national military will not necessarily mobilize generally to counter the socialist threat, and divisions will become apparent within the army, some factions allying with the socialists and others remaining devoted to defending the fatherland. The patriotic army may amount to as little as a rebel faction, like the White Army in the USSR, whose capabilities didn't stand a chance against the larger national Red Army.

[Potemkin]

we have all weapons and socialists hate weapons

You don't know very much about Soviet history, do you? The first action of any genuinely socialist leadership in America would be to arm the working class. We're not liberals.

[fuser]

We're not liberals

This

You don't know very much about Soviet history, do you?

I don't think he knows about any history with regards to a social revolution

Even with superior military equipments, direct US aid and a full time army Chiang Kai shek had to flee to a tiny little island after he lost out to armed peasants.... led by Mao Tse Tsung.......

[Jackal]

Most people in the army come from the working class, anyways. Socialism would benefit many of their family members and ultimately themselves, they may or may not realize this but seeing that minority members in the military are on the increase, perhaps some sort of third world leftism would be appealing to them. Who knows?

I would like to agree with:

Some in the army will react, others won't, just like they did during the Spanish Civil War.

Everyone here is a conservative/libertarian...there are not socialist in the foxholes

Now is this because they are truly conservative/libertarian, or is it that they are not aware of socialism (due to a systematic negative branding of "liberals" in the US military), or do they hide their beliefs due to reason #2?

[Cartertonian]

Utter drivel...mind you, if the standard of English demonstrated in the OP is a representative example of what one can expect of an enlisted US serviceman, then the left have little to worry about. Offering up material that my 7 year old might have written does not intimate a particularly high degree of intellect and cognitive functionality in someone who claims to both be adult and serving in the armed forces.

So in summary...'grunts' or 'toms' as we would call them in my organisation, are thick as pig excrement and lack the wit to effectively threaten anyone.

pretty easy....we have all weapons and socialists hate weapons

Interesting assumption. I'm a leftist...and a marksman with all light role infantry weapons.

As you failed colonials are fond of observing...'go figure'.

[Mazhi]

social-democrats/reformists idea...

(modern) social democrats =/= socialists
reformist socialists =/= revolutionary socialists

and socialists hate weapons

Ehm... Your Army fought these some time ago...





Looks to me like they had weapons. How else could they have won?

[fuser]

socialists hate weapons

So, one thing for sure they do have weapons and you have very very poor intel...

[Jackal]

Utter drivel...mind you, if the standard of English demonstrated in the OP is a representative example of what one can expect of an enlisted US serviceman, then the left have little to worry about.

The OP would benefit from an education programme likely found in a Socialist system.

[Vera Politica]

Jokes aside, please try some civil, precise arguments without resorting to implied ad-hominems.
This thread, trolling aside, can head in a good direction.

[Gletkin]

Ex-Green Beret lefty Stan Goff wrote this sometime ago.
Interesting assertion....it seems he's basically saying that although the "average" US serviceman may subjectively be as jingoistically right-wing as demonstrated by the OP, objectively, the US Armed Forces are the closest thing the USA presently has to "socialism".

The irony of course, is that capitalist libertarians would agree with him 100% on this.

[Figlio di Moros]

False... first, "libertarian" is a liberal ideology, not a rightist one. We've established this pretty solidly on this forum.

Second, survey's of servicemen's politics show 1/3 tend towards the GOP, 1/3 tends to the democrats, and 1/3 classify themselves as "independant", compared to citizens at the same time being ~45% GOP, ~45% Dems, and ~10% "independent". Since the GOP and Democrats, even at their most extreme points, advocate different forms of liberalism, the military shows a higher preference for "alternative politics", which can range(and mostly includes) other forms of liberalism, but also true leftist and rightist beliefs.

[KurtFF8]

The first action of any genuinely socialist leadership in America would be to arm the working class.

A large percentage of the working class in America (at least the United States) already owns arms

[Vera Politica]

A large percentage of the working class in America (at least the United States) already owns arms

but a significant percent of the urban working class doesn't.

Socialists should remain firm and steadfast against the policies of the left to disarm the working class.

[KurtFF8]

Of course, most liberals aren't aware of the origins of gun control (e.g. in California it was to curb the influence of the Black Panther Party)

[Gletkin]

False... first, "libertarian" is a liberal ideology, not a rightist one.

And your point is?......
Capliberts pride themselves on being outside the traditional left-right spectrum. Often they lump them all....left, center, and right...together as "socialists" or at least "collectivists" which in turn is described as authoritarian.

So they'd probably read this thinking "Isn't this what we've been saying all along?"

We've established this pretty solidly on this forum.

Given the diversity of views on PoFo I highly doubt that anything has been "pretty solidly established".

Second, survey's of servicemen's politics show 1/3 tend towards the GOP, 1/3 tends to the democrats, and 1/3 classify themselves as "independant", compared to citizens at the same time being ~45% GOP, ~45% Dems, and ~10% "independent". Since the GOP and Democrats, even at their most extreme points, advocate different forms of liberalism, the military shows a higher preference for "alternative politics", which can range(and mostly includes) other forms of liberalism, but also true leftist and rightist beliefs.

Have you got links to those surveys?
I'm genuinely curious.

Of course, most liberals aren't aware of the origins of gun control (e.g. in California it was to curb the influence of the Black Panther Party)

Or most conservatives or capitalist libertarians either. For example, US 2nd Amendment rights activists often incorporate foreign political/historical figures in their propaganda either as "gun grabbers" (e.g. Hitler, Stalin, Qaddafi, etc.) or people who could benefit from easy access to guns (the 1989 Tiananmen protesters). But often do they commemorate people like S.A. Ganapathy? The Communist Malayan trade unionist who was hanged by the British Empire for unregistered possession of a handgun?

"Gun control" is independent of ideology. One of it's major purposes is to police the populace to preserve the power of the incumbent regime, regardless of political views.

Then again, the USA is the only country in the world where opposition to gun control is viewed as a "right-wing" stance. On this one specific issue, the rest of the world's conservatives view American conservatives as crazy.

[Ombrageux]

The military is the most State-Socialist (Leninist) institution in the United States of America.

[KurtFF8]

The military is the most State-Socialist (Leninist) institution in the United States of America.

That doesn't make any sense

[Ombrageux]

A military, by definition, is internally a tyrannical bureaucracy with no market incentives for performance. Leninist states were essentially military-bureaucratic states (sometimes properly "armies with countries"). In that they were quite similar to the U.S. military, which by nature is completely different from market-based or liberal democratic institutions.

[KurtFF8]

The US military has been around since long before there was such thing as "Marxism" or "Leninism." It also serves the market, as does the US government.

Perhaps you're confused about what Leninism means? Your using Glenn Beck logic here.