One Degree wrote:
You are making allowances for local populism while demanding overall efficiency is the primary goal.
No, you're *imputing* this -- the primary goal is the overthrow of the bourgeoisie, which is currently the world's ruling class. *Internally*, for whatever workers government takes hold, the primary goal would be the immediate meeting of everyone's humane needs, worldwide, without exception, *as efficiently as possible*.
Please note that my socialistic 'Multi-Tiered' model allows for various extents of centralization on a per-item basis -- this means that no *standing* bureaucracy is required, since all demands-making can be done entirely bottom-up, with various per-item scopes of centralization bringing similar areas of production together for greater efficiencies-of-scale.
Here's from the model for the more-advanced 'labor credits' system:
consumption [demand] -- Every person in a locality has a standard, one-through-infinity ranking system of political demands available to them, updated daily
consumption [demand] -- Basic human needs will be assigned a higher political priority by individuals and will emerge as mass demands at the cumulative scale -- desires will benefit from political organizing efforts and coordination
consumption [demand] -- All economic needs and desires are formally recorded as pre-planned consumer orders and are politically prioritized [demand]
consumption [demand] -- A regular, routine system of mass individual political demand pooling -- as with spreadsheet templates and email -- must be in continuous operation so as to aggregate cumulative demands into the political process
[T]his method *aggregates* / tallies all personally prioritized demands lists *and* formal list items for a locality or pre-defined larger geographic area, on a *daily* basis, per rank position (#1, #2, #3, etc.), so that *no* standing institutional 'administration' is ever needed, and neither are political representatives of any kind required, either -- (no elections or voting processes are ever used). This daily mass-prioritization of material and socio-political demands is the information most needed by society, and by liberated labor in particular, a mirror-reflection of total verbatim collective consciousness, through compiled data. Liberated labor -- as available-and-willing, and as formally requisitioned through defined work roles in policy packages, and potentially funded with labor credits -- then itself flexibly collectively decides which finalized policy package(s) to take-up and implement, to completion, or not. (Greater-aggregatively-tallied, higher rank positions are populist-type *advisements* to liberated labor, but they do not *obligate* it in any way.)
https://www.revleft.space/vb/threads/20 ... -Questions
Here's a thought-experiment I've been meaning to put-out-there -- how would the specific instance of *lychee* fruit be handled in a world-collectivist way -- ?
Lychee (variously spelled litchi, liechee, liche, lizhi or li zhi, or lichee) (Litchi chinensis; Chinese: 荔枝; pinyin: lìzhī) is the sole member of the genus Litchi in the soapberry family, Sapindaceae.
It is a tropical tree native to the Guangdong and Fujian provinces of China, where cultivation is documented from 1059 AD. China is the main producer of lychees, followed by India, other countries in Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent and South Africa.
A tall evergreen tree, the lychee bears small fleshy fruits. The outside of the fruit is pink-red, roughly textured and inedible, covering sweet flesh eaten in many different dessert dishes. Since the perfume-like flavour is lost in the process of canning, the fruit is usually eaten fresh.
Lychees are extensively grown in China, India, Thailand, Vietnam and the rest of tropical Southeast Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, and more recently in South Africa, Brazil, the Caribbean, Australia and the United States. They require a tropical climate that is frost-free and is not below the temperature of −4 °C (25 °F). Lychees also require a climate with high summer heat, rainfall, and humidity.
Would a globally collectivist society say that *anyone* could request lychees, even if they couldn't be grown there locally?
And, if so, what would be the liberated-labor 'cost' of harvesting and transporting that fruit for non-local consumers?
Should local consumers take precedence over non-local consumers for fulfillment of lychee requests / demands?
How would priority be established among local and non-local formally-demanding consumers for the fruit?
All of these types of logistical issues would have to be explicitly addressed and resolved by a socialistic workers state, *and* by a thoroughly post-capitalist *communist* mode of production as well.
(My model is able to address this scenario, and any other, with its daily aggregated individual rank-item demands listings. See the FAQ.)
One Degree wrote:
This requires planners and managers override local populism to avoid “duplication of production”. In practice, I don’t see how this would amount to much more than lip service to populism.
Fortunately I *don't advocate* any kind of populist politics, so it's a moot point.
You're continuing to erroneously assume that an elitist planners-and-managers type of Stalinistic bureaucracy would be required, when it wouldn't. Mass liberated-labor involvement, as into a collective workers state, would be more than sufficient to mass-intentionally pool various local geographic efforts together, for various extents of bottom-up centralization, per-item, to realize greater efficiencies of scale.
You're also assuming that centralization automatically means the 'overriding of local collectives' -- really it should be more like a *coordination* of existing locally-based bottom-up work roles already in progress. Under real socialism if on-the-ground workers simply walked away from their work roles for whatever reason there'd be nothing that anyone else could do about it -- and their own individual human needs, as for food and shelter, etc., would still require fulfillment, so then it's really more of a socio-*political* problem for everyone, to be resolved collectively and uniformly.
One Degree wrote:
I have little interest in economic efficiency. This is mainly of benefit to capitalists and theoreticians. The common man’s life is improved by ‘being a part of a community’, not by lower prices for luxuries (or free luxuries) or even ‘the lowest price’ (or greater quantity of free food) for food.
Prices wouldn't exist because there would be no exchange-values whatsoever -- no money, no stock, no bonds, no finance, no private ownership, no profit-making.
You'd be able to choose wherever you'd like to live, in whatever community suits you, as long as it's mutually consensual.
For the matters of a post-capitalist *material-economics*, though, the issues are how to do material productivity on a fully collectivist, egalitarian basis, and how to distribute such social production on an *equitable* basis that's customized to each individual's formally expressed needs and wants -- hence my model at the labor credits FAQ.
One Degree wrote:
To place efficiency over ‘community choice’ is to place economics over ‘being human’. Being human does not require efficiency. Actually, a happy human is often one involved in meaningless and wasteful tasks with friends. Seeing the ‘results’ of a community garden does more for humans than deciding if they planted too many carrots. No one cares. They will just have more carrots.
Great -- if you and others want to live this way, there'd be no problem with it, *except* for the fact that we haven't overcome capitalist / propertied rule yet. No one can currently raise carrots if they don't actually *own the land* that's necessary for that kind of production. (Or available time away from work to be with friends, etc.)
One Degree wrote:
I seem to be suffering from a ‘bug’ and admit I have not been able to internalize your overall plan sufficiently to not make erroneous assumptions. Forgive me if this appears I am intentionally misrepresenting your views.
It is just difficult to concentrate fully.
I'd say *take your time*, then. Try some sea salt for your health (you can research it). Besides sea salt I take borax, also for health.
If you could look over the 'global syndicalist currency' thread here at PoFo, that would probably get you caught-up:viewtopic.php?f=16&t=174857