Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...
Liberation of the working class while fucking over the working class! Liberal "communism" is just the left wing of liberalism. You might as well talk about a sober Scotsman.
Decky wrote:Nice things spring from the party, without the party steering the worker's state and using the means of production, distribution and exchange as a hammer to crush the enemies of the working there are no nice things.
Technology wrote:Of course, for so many Marxists, this is merely group private property, or "vulgar workerism", as nothing less than incoherent "ownership of all by all" property conceptions will do.
Decky wrote:Anyway if you give the working class what they want you do not get democratically run workers co-ops you get this.
KlassWar wrote:The problem is that when you don't have ownership of all by all you can't really do democratic planning of the economy, you're still subject to the market economy and all its failings.
Workers are good at knowing what they want on a direct level, because they know their own material desires. If workers are to get what they want out of capital, then they must be the managers of the capital they work at. Nigel Farage and Vladimir Lenin by contrast are fundamentally telling the workers the same thing, despite being on opposite ends of the political spectrum; that they don't need to have power to have power. Neither are interested in putting the direct stakes of workers before their formulation of their needs. The only difference is that Nigel Farage wants to pass the job onto the bourgeoisie, whereas Lenin and Stalin set their government itself to tell workers what they want to have.
James Connolly wrote:I believe that the development of the fighting spirit is of more importance than the creation of the theoretically perfect organisation; that, indeed, the most theoretically perfect organisation may, because of its very perfection and vastness, be of the greatest possible danger to the revolutionary movement if it tends, or is used, to repress and curb the fighting spirit of comradeship in the rank and file.
Lightman wrote:ou believe that information technology would make efficient, democratic planning not only feasible but preferable to market based allocation of resources. Can you point to any serious computer scientists/economists/whatever whose work seriously suggests this possibility (I'm not even asking for a ready-made computer program or the like, just work in that general direction)?
or yes if we are absolutely sure that all fascists will be immediately liquidated after the revolution.
But yeah, seriously there is no conceivable situation, from where we stand, fascists are nothing but armed guards of capitalism
fuser wrote:Capitalism with some other fancy name and more repression isn't really very attractive to us.
Marxists have a very clear cut view of fascism and which is, that fascist parties never try to overthrow capitalism but preserve it by unleashing more repressions.
Fascism and Social democracy are right and left wing respectably of same thing i.e. liberal capitalism.
its opposition to the nation-state and the state in general (total deal-breaker), to imperialism, and class society (although, this last bit is really just because I think that class is not all that fundamental to social relations and would play a very different role under fascism than capitalism).
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