The long road has killed more people than any other ideology - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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As either the transitional stage to communism or legitimate socio-economic ends in its own right.
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#14553150
Marx allegedly described Socialism as "the long road from capitalism to communism". This is why there was a Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, rather than a Union of Soviet Communist Republics.

In this sense of the word, socialism has killed more humans than any other ideology - political, religious, or economic - in history.

I just figured that you might be interested in what the score was.
#14553245
Marx allegedly described Socialism as "the long road from capitalism to communism". This is why there was a Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, rather than a Union of Soviet Communist Republics.

In this sense of the word, socialism has killed more humans than any other ideology - political, religious, or economic - in history.

I just figured that you might be interested in what the score was.


Whatever makes you sleep better. Atleast they didn't genocide and displace whole populations of South america , North America and the Caribean. Didn't engage in slavery in Africa and also didn't exploit both physically and economically the whole of Asia and the middle east.

So was socialist, specially early socialism brutal? Yes. But it doesn't even come close to early and more later versions of capitalism.

As to whenever modern Socialism/Social democracy/social libertarianism is better or worse than modern Capitalism/Anarcho capitalists/Globalism, it is really unclear.
Last edited by JohnRawls on 03 May 2015 14:19, edited 1 time in total.
#14553249
No. Also this obsession with body count is ridiculous, nothing comes close to liberalism though.

Body count is a strange perspective. We have apparently reverted back to pre 19th century definitions of war by body count. We talk of 10's and 100's instead of millions now. We fight wars where the chance of death is less than the chance of getting killed in an automobile accident. I think we have finally made it acceptable.
Edit:
Sorry, made it acceptable once again.
Last edited by One Degree on 03 May 2015 14:28, edited 1 time in total.
#14553250
Well yeah, in comparison, modern wars are more human than ever. As lexington posted the whole Arab-Israeli conflict for the last 60 years is roughly 1 week under Stalingard, so....
#14553449
JohnRawls wrote:Whatever makes you sleep better. Atleast they didn't genocide and displace whole populations of South america , North America and the Caribean. Didn't engage in slavery in Africa and also didn't exploit both physically and economically the whole of Asia and the middle east.

So was socialist, specially early socialism brutal? Yes. But it doesn't even come close to early and more later versions of capitalism.


Whoa whoa whoa, in one sentence you're talking about slavery and genocide, and then in the next you're talking about capitalism. No one was ever genocided or enslaved in the name of capitalism. Perhaps you are confusing capitalism with imperialism or nationalism.
#14553467
JohnRawls wrote:Whatever makes you sleep better. Atleast they didn't genocide and displace whole populations of South america , North America and the Caribean. Didn't engage in slavery in Africa and also didn't exploit both physically and economically the whole of Asia and the middle east.

The socialists genocided and enslaved their own instead.
#14553471
This thread/OP is shit.

Katie Boundary wrote:Whoa whoa whoa, in one sentence you're talking about slavery and genocide, and then in the next you're talking about capitalism. No one was ever genocided or enslaved in the name of capitalism. Perhaps you are confusing capitalism with imperialism or nationalism.


Obviously, then, no one was ever genocided or enslaved in the name of fascism. Everyone was either an enemy of the state, an undesirable, or someone who needed to be displaced for the purposes of creating breathing room.
#14553475
The concept of the "new man" is extremely dangerous as is largely leaves the "old man" as expendable for the long term good.

This is why I think the OP actually has a point. No suprise all the old stalinists mock him though. You guys are like an echo chamber here sometimes

In this sense of the word, socialism has killed more humans than any other ideology - political, religious, or economic - in history.


This is wrong but only because stalinism/maoism didnt get long enough at the helm to kill more.
#14553484
First off lets be clear the rise of ethnic genocide in modern times is a product of democratisation and universal sufferage. Its no good the Liberals whining about this, there demonisation of slavery was inevitably going to lead to an increase in genocide.

Libertarianism is very like Islam, nothing ever has anything to do with libertarianism as nothing has anything to do with Islam. So while it is correct to say that people weren't genocided in the name of Capitalism. The Native Americans were of course genocided in the name of Libertarianism. One of the major reasons for the American rebellion against Britain was the right of the American settlers to cross the proclamation line and genocide the Native Americans. of course our Libertarians preferred euphemisms like transportation to the West.
#14553515
Perhaps you are confusing capitalism with imperialism or nationalism.


I like how reactionaries chalk up something like Stalin's wartime actions to all of socialism, like everyone interested in workers' rights has to address this unrelated point in history (whether they agree with it or not), but pretend something systemic like imperialist war, colonialism/racism, liberal revolutionary terror etc. are all conveniently foreign to capitalism and they don't have to answer for it. Because otherwise, that would skew the 'body count'
#14554065
fuser wrote:So British Empire, French Empire etc etc, America were not capitalists, any more gem you like to share with us.

This just in folks, Capitalism only came about after Cold War.


The French, British, etc. also had noses. That doesn't mean that noses were responsible for slavery and genocide.

Learn to think please.

Rich wrote:The Native Americans were of course genocided in the name of Libertarianism.


No, they were wiped out by disease and war. There was no genocide, and even if there had been, it wouldn't have been in the name of libertarianism. "Manifest destiny" was the phrase on everyone's tongues.
#14554072
Katie wrote:The French, British, etc. also had noses. That doesn't mean that noses were responsible for slavery and genocide.




Okay so when Liberal states engaged in genocide etc, they were not being liberal but something else, similarly whenever anyone got harmed under socialism it wasn't socialism but something else responsible for it, you know because socialists have noses. All hail, the non existent Scotsman.

Anyhow you are wrong factually, the famines in Ireland and India under British Empire were literally caused by laissez faire
#14554291
So, wait, hold on. Tell me, again, how ideologies are supposed to kill people? Have you ever met an ideology, was he a dick?

Your insane bullshit always appears predicated on the belief that someone who kills people is a better reflection on their ideology than someone who doesn't. That's weird, isn't it?

So, where do you stand on the Cambodian-Vietnamese war? Are the Vietnamese somehow responsible for the Cambodian genocide because they both called themselves communists? You do see where your logic breaks down, right?
#14554298
Katie Boundary wrote:There was no genocide, and even if there had been, it wouldn't have been in the name of libertarianism. "Manifest destiny" was the phrase on everyone's tongues.


1. There was a genocide of the Native Americans
2. Manifest Destiny was coupled with capitalism. It's not like Americans were moving west to spread feudalism or communism.
3. Even if it wasn't, by the end of manifest destiny, you had Stanford Dole overthrowing Queen Liliuokalani and putting himself and the other capitalists in charge of a new provisional government pretty fast.

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