How would you reform Cuba's economy? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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As either the transitional stage to communism or legitimate socio-economic ends in its own right.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14779253
Pants-of-dog wrote:People have been predicting the imminent collapse of the Cuban economy for decades. I am not certain that this next prediction is any stronger than the previous ones.

Yes, it's difficult for a pile of rubble to collapse.
Decky wrote:Cuba is perfect, anyone who says otherwise is a counter revolutionary agent spreading lies and propaganda.

Or has been there.
Drlee wrote:Perhaps some dedicated communists might be able to hold on to the essence of Cuba and give their economy some legs.

Presumably that would be the kind of legs that are found inside stomping jackboots...?
#14779262
ComradeTim wrote:Having come to a semi-Mutualist/Georgist perceptive on matters economic, I broadly agree with this analysis save for the last paragraph

Well then you'll know exactly why de-Sovietization went off the rails: Yeltsin's crowd of kleptocrats ignored the geoist advice of the most honest and skilled western economic experts, including four (count 'em FOUR) Nobel laureates:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Open_let ... chev_(1990)

Cuba should do what they advised the XSSR to do.
#14779329
POD SAID: Presumably that would be the kind of legs that are found inside stomping jackboots...?


I don't understand what you mean by this.
#14779508
TTP wrote:Well then you'll know exactly why de-Sovietization went off the rails: Yeltsin's crowd of kleptocrats ignored the geoist advice of the most honest and skilled western economic experts, including four (count 'em FOUR) Nobel laureates:

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Open_let ... chev_(1990)

Cuba should do what they advised the XSSR to do.


How would that help the elites? Surely some concessions should be made to smooth the transition.


Drlee wrote:I don't understand what you mean by this.


Presumably he means that communism is inherently tyrannical and should be anathema.
#14779733
Drlee wrote:I don't understand what you mean by this.

The only kind of "legs" communism has ever given an economy.
ComradeTim wrote:How would that help the elites?

By giving them a free, just, and prosperous society to live in, without having to execute them to create it.
Surely some concessions should be made to smooth the transition.

Sure, as long as the concessions don't become the transition's principal result, as happened in the XSSR.
Last edited by Truth To Power on 24 Feb 2017 23:02, edited 1 time in total.
#14779753
Presumably he means that communism is inherently tyrannical and should be anathema.


I don't think it is inherently tyrannical. Certainly there have been tyrannical communist regimes in the past. Lots of them. Nevertheless. I have come to be mindful of the lot of the majority of people living under any regime. In the Cuban case, as an example, it would be a shame for their excellent health care system to be sacrificed on the altar of capitalism.

Is it clear that people are always better off under capitalism? Ask a former auto worker who was making good money and is now working at a convenience store for minimum wage. No health care to speak of and little chance of climbing out. The time is rapidly approaching when capitalism may well collapse due to all of the weight at the top.
#14787485
Pants-of-dog wrote:People have been predicting the imminent collapse of the Cuban economy for decades. I am not certain that this next prediction is any stronger than the previous ones.



Indeed & I for one would not accept that Cuba's economy needs reform, not in the context of requiring 'foreign' investments.

'Reform' should be internal, initiated by the people themselves, where they, not the state decides how they evolve socially & economically.

As far as it goes, Cuba has been correct in rejecting outside interference, simply because 'isolation' of sorts has been imposed on them by America & it's 'shirt-lifting ' political followers in the west.

Doing otherwise would place Cuba in the same category as Greece is in, they should steer well clear of western bankers & their representatives at the World Bank or the IMF.
#14801447
ComradeTim wrote:Collapse, unlikely. Become similar to the Chinese model, very probable, given the ongoing liberalization project.

That would move it in the direction of capitalism of course. I'm encouraged greatly by the proposal to promote worker cooperatives in the cities. That's what socialism should be.
#14801460
Their economy doesn't need 'reforming', it just needs freedom & space in which to evolve.

It's interference & organised corruption by politicians that stop economies from working as they should.

In my honest opinion, the most successful human market place to evolve, are the street markets.

I remember the small shop-owners that were, through high demand, as well as quality, the source of trade for many, many, small manufacturers & traders.
What killed many high street traders in the U.K was high business rates, which killed profits, trade & employment for short-term council revenues.
A country with too many tax points will kill off enterprise.
Taxes should only be extracted by government based on the trading bottom line, executive pay should be paid(post tax) along with shareholder dividends after corporate taxes due have been collected.
The executive pay,with dividends should then be taxed accordingly separately, any excessive executive salary, calculated by comparison to annual profit growth(or losses)would extracted back by the state, the purpose of this is to encourage investment, inhibiting 'leakage' of capital from the business.

There's no reason at all why Cuba cannot succeed, in fact it's future prospects look better than for a very long time.
#14801463
Tewodros III wrote:Decky wrote:Cuba is perfect, anyone who says otherwise is a counter revolutionary agent spreading lies and propaganda. I think I have uncovered a another poster being paid by Mossad. What does 30 pieces of silver buy you these days?

I actually agree with this, they can't change without America bursting in bringing "freedom" in the land. I feel the best they can do, is focus on technology for central planning and be closer to China. They can bring "reforms" when America dies.


There is one, and only one major factor killing Cuba's economy -- International sanctions. Lets lift the sanctions and see how well a communist nation can do if we don't slap on economic sanctions the moment the nation forms.

I believe this is relevant: http://writetorebel.com/2017/03/15/the-truth-about-cuban-socialism/
#14801644
MememyselfandIJK wrote:There is one, and only one major factor killing Cuba's economy -- International sanctions. Lets lift the sanctions and see how well a communist nation can do if we don't slap on economic sanctions the moment the nation forms.

I believe this is relevant: http://writetorebel.com/2017/03/15/the-truth-about-cuban-socialism/

The capitalist world, let by the USA, persistently attacked Venezuela in various ways in an effort to cause them to crash and to bring about a capitalist reactionary "de-revolution". Oil prices finally got them. But then I don't think we should expect a hands-off policy by the US toward Cuba.
#14801956
Decky wrote:What would an anarchist be able to understand about Cuba anyway. :roll: If you people were in charge instead of the strong Cuban people's state the Americans would have invaded long ago. I bet you would would love that. American individualism would be your sort of thing.


let the Santeros take over
#14801981
Finfinder wrote:No it was the over under on how many time you pull out the race card in a day.


I would love to be calling out that many racists per day. I am hitting way over quota, and thus must ask Soros for a raise.
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