[CasX]

The Socialist International

The Socialist International is an association of political parties and organisations which seek to establish democratic socialism. The purpose of The Socialist International is to strengthen relations between the affiliated parties and to coordinate their political attitudes and activities by consent.

Located here: http://www.socialistinternational.org/

Be sure to check them out, especially their declaration of principles.

We are confident that the strength of our principles, the force of our arguments and the idealism of our supporters will contribute to shaping a democratic socialist future into the 21st century. We invite all men and women to join us in this endeavour.

I am very happy to discuss/debate any of the principles of democratic socialism and the declaration of the International shown here:
http://www.socialistinternational.org/4 ... tml#global

[Erik of NKP]

This international is not working for building democratic socialism, but social democracy, and there is a BIG difference between them.

Democratic socialism is socialism as Marx envisioned it, it is socialism in it's true form, where property is owned and controlled by the proletariat. Social democracy is, as we all know, not based on this, it is simply based on a more strongly state-regulated economy than other bourgeoise parties want. In other words, they are a part of the capitalist system, and accept the system, they are not fighting for replacing it with socialism.

[Freedom]

This international is not working for building democratic socialism, but social democracy, and there is a BIG difference between them.

Democratic socialism is socialism as Marx envisioned it

From what i gather CasX is a Social Democrat...so i dont think he cares to much about what "Marx" invisioned...also isnt CasX a Kautsky-ite??

[jaakko]

But Kautsky was basically a Marxist untill WWI. The 'Socialist International' is actually the second international. The majority of its parties sold themselves to national chauvinism and class reconciliation when the WWI broke out.

The issue of pre-WWI 'social-democracy' is a quite complicated one (something it is not in the post-WWI world), as then it included different forces ranging from right-wingers to vacillating elements to genuine Marxist parties.

[Freedom]

But Kautsky was basically a Marxist untill WWI

Oh okay...i read a bit of Kautsky and he at least from what i've read prefers to use the Demoratic institutions availible to bring about something closer to socialism rather than a revolution...would this assumption be correct?

Also would i be correct in saying that it is Lenin who provided the main ideas regarding how the country should transist from Socialism to Communism as Marx's insight was limited?

Also pre WW1 Socialist factions is not my strong point so i will stay out of that debate, but read in interest.

[CasX]

"Is it not the task of all who call themselves socialists to build that shining land? For, has not the wheel of history come full circle? Are we not standing, upon the threshold of the 21st century, where the socialists stood 100 years ago?"

What am I? Democratic socialist...left-wing social democrat, it does not matter. See the socialism FAQ thread. Read the Socialist International statutes, that is what I want, and the closer we get to that, the better.

A Kautsky-ite, what is this? Kautsky makes good arguments for social democracy against Bolshevik communism. He dedicated to socialism and democracy. That's why I like him. He was more like the Marx of his time than any of those violent authoritarians.

I read the declarations of the International and it all makes sense. Whatever you label that is your choice. They're looking for the right thing.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Kautsky was a living contradiction, and I mean this in the worst sense possible. To be declared a Kautskyite can only be meant as deep theoratical criticism, unless you are of the masochist sort.

- Prometheus

[CasX]

I'm no expert on the guy at all. I've only read a few pieces by him, and they were very good. If anyone who is more knowledgeable on Kautsky would like to make a thread about him in this forum, I would appreciate that.

[mim3]

The leader of an Amerikkkan section of the Socialist International, Michael Harrington spoke actively in favor of the Vietnam War.

We just so happen to have published a review of the Armenian "consultative" section of the Socialist International too.

Here is the link:
http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/count ... party.html

Just as during World War I, the Socialist International continues its tradition of crazy and aimless nationalism with no productive use to the exploited.

[CasX]

I think that's a bit misleading. He certainly didn't oppose it while the Democracts were in power, and he even denounced those who did. But when Nixon became President, he did oppose it, he was basically just sticking to the Democratic line (which is still pretty bad).

That was the impression I got anyway.

Anyway, here's a really good bio of him.

A stalinist denouncement of the International doesn't hold much sway to me.

What is your reference to WWI?

The Socialist International, whose origins go back to the early international organisations of the labour movement, has existed in its present form since 1951.

I don't know quite what changed in 1951 though.

[jaakko]

What is your reference to WWI?

The majority of Second International parties revealing their true nature as each of them sided with their own imperialist bourgeoisie. Some used nationalist pretexts, some slogans like "defending democracy", while some kept up a "pacifist" mask under which they lent indirect support for their government. WWI was when the 2. International reached the peak of its right-opportunist bankrupty. Genuine Marxist parties left it.

I don't know quite what changed in 1951 though.

Name.

[mim3]

A stalinist denouncement of the International doesn't hold much sway to me.

mim3 replies for MIM:
The above is a typical excuse for political laziness. The article of ours shows you the link to the Armenian section of the crazy nationalists of the Socialist International. If you don't believe MIM, then go to the website yourself and figure out what they are talking about for yourself.

If you study World War I and things like the Armenia situation, you will see what Mao said nationalism aimed at liberation from imperialism was progressive and why that is such a key formulation for sanity.

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/faq/nationalism.html