What is Technocracy? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The solving of mankind’s problems and abolition of government via technological solutions alone.

Moderator: Kolzene

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14882696
@Kolzene

So you're a cult member?

Cult of technology attributes
There are many, but a few can be summarized here:

A thoroughly scientific method of control of the technology of the continent.

Democratic controls for all non-technical issues and decisions.

Maximum freedom for all citizens in terms of latitude of purchasing power and personal rights

Removal of methods of scarcity economics such as money, debt, value, and interest.

The elimination of political decision-making from technical affairs

Replacement of these methods with an empirical accounting of all physical resources, products, and services (called Energy Accounting).

Productive capacity many orders of magnitude higher than currently possible, without requiring any new equipment.

Decrease in human labor required to produce these amounts through proper use of automation.

Highest possible standard of living for ALL citizens in terms of income, housing, health care, education, and leisure.

Sustainable resource management through conservation and industrial efficiency

Elimination or vast reduction of various social ills, such as poverty, crime, pollution, insecurity, and disease.


So it's a utopian cult? Reminds me of Things to Come, by HG Wells.

Last edited by RhetoricThug on 25 Jan 2018 18:48, edited 1 time in total.
#14882704
A technocracy is basically any communist or socialist society. In contemporary times it's a society ruled by 'social science', which translates to postmodern deconstructionism. You need only look at the 'there are no differences between genders' pseudo-intellectual academic movement to realize how destructive such societies can be.
By ness31
#14882883
Democratic controls for all non-technical issues and decisions.


For myself, this raises the question of what a technical issue might be. Would an example of a technical be whether a city’s lights go out at 9pm?

And considering that machines are super smart what jobs will there be left for humans? How will Technocracy solve unemployment?
#14883274
@The Sabbaticus

You have absolutely no idea what Technocracy is at all. Please just go to technocracy.ca and sort yourself out.

@Kolzene

If they're off-topic then why not simply delete the posts or make one of those large stickied posts explaining the ideology of a forum? You can have both an excuse to delete "What is Technocracy" posts due to there being an already definitive post explaining Technocracy and you educate people about Technocracy all the same.
#14883275
@ness31

Technocracy can only operate in a post-scarcity society i.e. a society which has achieved an abundance of resources. Technocracy's goal is basically to distribute those resources effectively with the utmost importance given to providing all those under Technocracy with highest standard of living possible.

Therefore, because there is an abundance of resources, no one needs to work for resources as they did under a scarcity system, the resources they need would be distributed to them anyways.
User avatar
By Hong Wu
#14883277
^^ This is telling since pretty much any form of government would work in a post scarcity society :excited:
#14883279
@RhetoricThug

The cult of technology does not have the "attributes" (i.e. copy pasted ideas of Technocracy with the label "CULT" slapped onto it in order to reinforce how bad and unhealthy it is) many of which don't have to do with technology itself such removing debt and money along with providing limitless purchasing power for all citizens and many are even against the ideals of the cult of technology.

For example, "productive capacity many orders of magnitude higher than currently possible, without requiring any new equipment." would be a no no in the cult of technology whose fundamental belief is that all ills in society can be fixed via technology while Technocracy, although it values technology in terms of increasing living standards, does not think technology will magically fix society and is more concerned with economics rather than technological enlightenment.

@Hong Wu

That's not true. The reason that the Great Depression occurred was because America was producing so much that consumers simply could not consume the abundance of resources companies and other producers were producing. This lead to massive losses which, in turn, lead to the Great Depression.

In this case, capitalism and other scarcity systems fail.
#14883335
Oxymandias wrote:@RhetoricThug
The cult of technology does not have the "attributes" (i.e. copy pasted ideas of Technocracy with the label "CULT" slapped onto it in order to reinforce how bad and unhealthy it is) many of which don't have to do with technology itself such removing debt and money along with providing limitless purchasing power for all citizens and many are even against the ideals of the cult of technology.
I like the first definition of cult: a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. Scientific or religious, Technocracy is a belief system. Hence the special name (Technical Alliance), a special website, a special message. Your belief system isn't necessarily 'unhealthy,' but at the end of the day, it's a dogmatic set of beliefs.

For example, "productive capacity many orders of magnitude higher than currently possible, without requiring any new equipment." would be a no no in the cult of technology whose fundamental belief is that all ills in society can be fixed via technology while Technocracy, although it values technology in terms of increasing living standards, does not think technology will magically fix society and is more concerned with economics rather than technological enlightenment.
Personally, I think all human societies must be technocratic in nature. You can make a value judgment, and get a group of like-minded individuals to embrace those values, but Technocracy as a concept looks like any other 'cracy' or 'ism' to the average person. Ultimately, If technology is an extension of human biology, we'll sink or swim together. Economics is a technological system, put in place to organize or enhance biological communication. We need a better way of communicating, and forming a group with a 'ism' or 'cracy' in its name will inspire division instead of unification. People need to understand how interconnected everything is, so they can understand what is at stake (hint- our biological survival).

If you're using 19th century thinking or ideological branding/marketing to distribute a future socioeconomic order, you're not going to make an impact. You need to get people involved in change subliminally. Merchants/bankers changed society and replaced barter by introducing currency, they didn't go around preaching merchant-ism or bankocracy . :roll: The smart-phone revolution changed society, but smartphone users didn't join a silicon-valley sect before purchasing a smartphone. My point being- you don't understand how to change society and that is why you're an obscure group of like-minded individuals preaching on internet forums. The REAL technocracy is happening right now, it's not in the news, it's not a course you can take in college; REAL technocracy is the incremental evolution and implementation of technology, changing (y)our world one device at a time. The cracy or ism come after the fact. If you want to modify behavior, you must incentivize the modification.

Perhaps you should study the gentle way.

Judo emphasizes winning in combat by using your opponent's weight and strength as weapons against him, while preserving your own mental and physical energy. It embodies the principle that good technique can win out over sheer strength.

^That is how you implement technocracy. :)
By ness31
#14883498
Oxymandias wrote:@ness31

Technocracy can only operate in a post-scarcity society i.e. a society which has achieved an abundance of resources. Technocracy's goal is basically to distribute those resources effectively with the utmost importance given to providing all those under Technocracy with highest standard of living possible.

Therefore, because there is an abundance of resources, no one needs to work for resources as they did under a scarcity system, the resources they need would be distributed to them anyways.


Of course, that makes sense :) It’s just hard to imagine a post scarcity world I guess. Humans are so traumatised from having been extorted for everything it will be hard to not squirrel things away for rainy days.

So can you give me an example of a non technical issue and decision?
#14883627
@RhetoricThug

I like the first definition of cult: a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. Scientific or religious, Technocracy is a belief system. Hence the special name (Technical Alliance), a special website, a special message. Your belief system isn't necessarily 'unhealthy,' but at the end of the day, it's a dogmatic set of beliefs.


You seem to know next to nothing about Technocracy. Technocracy does not worship technology nor anything in particular. Furthermore it does not believe in anything either. It is a tool, it is something to be applied in only certain instances. In this case, Technocracy is a tool to be used when a society achieves post-scarcity. I have stated this in my previous post and I have explained why Technocracy isn't a belief system within my points as well yet you have blatantly ignored them.

If Technocracy is a belief system simply because it has its own name, website, and message then every scientific theory made in the 21st century is apparently a belief system regardless of whether it expresses any beliefs in the first place.

[quote]Personally, I think all human societies must be technocratic in nature. You can make a value judgment, and get a group of like-minded individuals to embrace those values, but Technocracy as a concept looks like any other 'cracy' or 'ism' to the average person. Ultimately, If technology is an extension of human biology, we'll sink or swim together. Economics is a technological system, put in place to organize or enhance biological communication. We need a better way of communicating, and forming a group with a 'ism' or 'cracy' in its name will inspire division instead of unification. People need to understand how interconnected everything is, so they can understand what is at stake (hint- our biological survival). [\quote]

You are right about many things. You are right that Technocracy will never change society the way its trying to change society now. Technocracy as it is will remain a fringe movement, unknown to most or will become political if it gets big enough, which may skew Technocracy to fit the poor association who grew popular enough's interests.

It is my opinion that Technocracy will, to the shock and disgust of many Technocrats, come naturally. Technocracy is hard to comprehend even to many of its adherents and it will become even harder to implement in the current political climate.

In order for Technocracy to succeed it the conditions must be put into place to make it viable not just viable for a majority of the population but the most obvious path of social development.

This, as you have said, must be through careful incentives which can push society along that path. Every small detail, every action, every event no matter how insignificant can push society into some radical changes in the future.

The issue of course, is that such things are both impossible to plan and organize which makes any attempt at artificially producing Technocracy to be a moot point.

Bankers and merchants arose through very specific socioeconomic circumstances that were in turn built up by series of events and random occurances that created the conditions which allowed bankers and merchants to survive.
#14883895
Oxymandias wrote:You are right about many things. You are right that Technocracy will never change society the way its trying to change society now. Technocracy as it is will remain a fringe movement, unknown to most or will become political if it gets big enough, which may skew Technocracy to fit the poor association who grew popular enough's interests.
Let's be honest and concise- The Technical Alliance doesn't have any real authority, therefore its definition of Technocracy does not necessarily represent the REAL world and the Technocratic policies which continue to be slowly implemented (building off innovation and diffusion). Why do you think the telecommunications industry is trying to implement 5G infrastructure round the world? Their engineers and CEOs can influence real-world policy.

It is my opinion that Technocracy will, to the shock and disgust of many Technocrats, come naturally. Technocracy is hard to comprehend even to many of its adherents and it will become even harder to implement in the current political climate.
You're underwhelming. Technocracy is happening all around you. Smartphones augmented society in less than 10 years.

“We Are All Cyborgs Now,” Case argues that smartphones — and the connection they represent to a global social network — have become more than just a device in our pockets but something closer to a digital extension of ourselves.

“This is the first time in the entire history of humanity that we’ve connected in this way,” she says in a transcript from the speech. “And it’s not that machines are taking over. It’s that they’re helping us to be more human, helping us to connect with each other.

“We’re just increasing our humanness and our ability to connect with each other, regardless of geography.”


http://www.govtech.com/products/How-Sma ... ecade.html


In order for Technocracy to succeed it the conditions must be put into place to make it viable not just viable for a majority of the population but the most obvious path of social development.
Hate to break it to you, but your definition of technocracy is not the REAL technocracy being implemented. This may be a cliche suggestion, but I encourage you to read Between Two Ages by Zbigniew Brzezinski. See, unlike you, Zbigniew Brzezinski (Former National Security Advisor of the United States) had a chance to help shape Gov policy.

This, as you have said, must be through careful incentives which can push society along that path. Every small detail, every action, every event no matter how insignificant can push society into some radical changes in the future.
Yeah, in behavioral science it's called 'nudging.' Furthermore, in 2015 this executive order backed 'nudging.' https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/th ... e-american

A growing body of evidence demonstrates that behavioral science insights -- research findings from fields such as behavioral economics and psychology about how people make decisions and act on them -- can be used to design government policies to better serve the American people.



The issue of course, is that such things are both impossible to plan and organize which makes any attempt at artificially producing Technocracy to be a moot point.
I disagree. Propaganda can get people to start smoking cigarettes and stop smoking cigs within 75 years. In general, human behavior is malleable. Be sure to click like and subscribe, Oxymandias ;)

Bankers and merchants arose through very specific socioeconomic circumstances that were in turn built up by series of events and random occurances that created the conditions which allowed bankers and merchants to survive.
When individuals or institutions introduce a new technology/tool, the technology/tool reshapes society. If you follow the history of banking, currency as a technology was used to reform barter, and help merchants gain control over key aspects of civilization. Socioeconomic relations changed after merchants began to issue loans to agriculture. Banking and money happen to be prominent features in any developed society. series of events and random occurances, No, commerce is an essential part of nation/empire building.
#14883955
@RhetoricThug

It did have authority at one point, that is until it corrupted itself as it gained more political power. Could you inform me about any of these Technocratic policies? I haven't seen anything in the public policy sphere remotely similar to Technocracy. There are certain ideas that bear some resemblance to Technocracy such as Distributed Economies and ideas that may lead to thinking about resources in terms of Technocracy such as MMT or Modern Monetary Theory. Yet none of these are legitimate policies, just ideas however right they are.

That has nothing to do with Technocracy. Yes, Technocracy is a distribution system and yes, communications is important in distribution systems but there is more to a distribution system than just communication. Personally I think F2P and the Open Source Movement are more better examples of potential leaders for the development of Technocracy than smartphones are. Smartphones are a technology, there is more to Technocracy than simply technology.

Yes, Technocracy, Left-Libertarianism, Distributed Economies, Neo-Socialism, and Structural Fascism all utilize incentive systems to encourage people to act or think in a certain way.

I agree that human behavior is malleable but won't change it through propaganda. Technical Alliance knew this and tried to convince people to their ideas hoping that its merits would turn them to their side. This of course was the wrong way to go about it.

What reduced smoking was not the anti-smoking ads everywhere but the newly applied tax added to cigarettes. If you really wanted to stop cigarette consumption you could tax not only the consumers but the producers of the cigarettes as well. It would decentivize any form even going into the cigar business in general.

Yet certain civilizations didn't even develop currency and continued to use barter. Some civilizations industrialized and some didn't. Through better or for worse, society is the way it because of certain actions which had unforeseeable consequences.
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