[starman2003]

Considering the economic and technical realities were so different, you shouldn't rely so heavily on the analogy.

The bottom line is our dependence on arab oil hasn't changed. It's still needed for transportation and heat etc and the potential for serious economic consequences is still there. The continued critical importance of arab oil to the industrialized world was demonstrated again in 1991, when the US led coalition drove Iraq out of Kuwait.

The United States should not be supporting Israel in any case.

Of course not. Basically, the policy, like so many others, reflects a weakness of democracy. The ignorance of the average voter means that generally only the pro-Israel bunch votes on the basis of Mideast policy. Inasmuch as Israel is of far less importance than the arab states and Iran, essentially that means politicians must sacrifice the national interest to get elected. And that a small minority which cares mainly for another country has shanghaied ours to benefit that foreign country...

[Figlio di Moros]

The United States should not be supporting Israel in any case. Israel should not exist.

On what grounds? They're a unique nation, same as every other, and stronger than their neighbors. There's very little realpolick reason to support them, but I find the Israeli more appealing than the Arab, and favor them personally.

[starman2003]

There's very little realpolick reason to support them..

That's the most important consideration; something almost every other nation realized long ago. Btw I think it's realpolitik.

..I find the Israeli more appealing than the Arab, and favor them personally.

Maybe but we ought not base policy on that. Online I've encountered many Egyptians, Israelis and others. Many arab posters are personally OK and bright.

[Suska]

It's probably a bit odd to say but when people use the term Realpolitik I take it as fantasy. In other words it's not real at all to me. Realpolitik is invoked exclusively by fans of The Prince and SS uniforms, they're like gearheads in supercars stuck in traffic like everyone else.

[starman2003]

Israel should not exist.

I wouldn't necessarily go that far (although it might eventually disappear, the whole region may go with it). Still, good to see somebody else in this country express strongly anti-Israel views. No fascist should be pro-Israel.

[Preston Cole]

No fascist should be pro-Israel.

Israel's territory has always been the land of the Jewish people. Just because they left the land and Arabs started colonizing it doesn't mean it isn't the Jews' national right to have that land. They're fighting hard to keep it theirs and they're very nationalistic.

Most fascists outside the US should be pro-Israel, not based on the "victim of the Holocaust" crap, but based on historical facts and common nationalism.

[Fasci XP]

That's rubbish. Should the Native Americans, then, be intent on establishing some sort of Pan-American Fascist nation? By the same logic, you'd have so many "ancient" civilizations re-emerging, and yet I doubt you would support that sort of thing.

[Figlio di Moros]

Except that the Indians lands were taken by the rights of conquest, and are too weak to possibly consider opposing the US. However, Israel established its right to the land through rights of conquest, rather than having it taken by it.

Starman, Israel is a strong, occidental nation surrounded by Arab muslim nations. You're far more impractical in asserting we should stop supporting Israel than those who do. The worst blowback it's provided is rhetoric that only energizes those already zealous against us.

[myrmeleo]

[Fasci XP]

Fine, Figlio di Moros, here is the deal:

1) If the Arab nations of the region manage to conquer Israel, then according to you, they have earned it? Then that is what they can do.

2) Israel's defense is her responsibility; we ought not to be involved, either financially or militarily.

[starman2003]

Most fascists outside the US should be pro-Israel...

No way. It's not just that it makes no sense geopolitically and economically, which has long caused the more pragmatic Europeans to support Israel less than the US, if at all. Israel is a democracy. The whole ostensible basis for US support is shared democratic values. The revival of Israel in 1948 was symbolic of the reassertion of judao-christianity/democracy in the wake of the reich's fall. If fascism/Caesarism/wholism are ever to revive, Israel and what it stands for will have to go down.

You're far more impractical in asserting we should stop supporting Israel than those who do.

In real or practical terms, Israel is almost worthless. Neither the US nor anyone else really needs it for anything, whereas the Arab/muslim nations are much bigger, more populous and economically far more important. That is why virtually no other nation has backed Israel like the US.

...those already zealous against us.

That's fallacious. See Walt and Mearsheimer The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. If many muslims are "against us" it's only because of our foolish policies in their region, such as backing Israel.

Israel's defense is her responsibility; we ought not to be involved, either financially or militarily.

Very well said. Unfortunately, this country has been shanghaied by a lobby which considers it a mere cow for its favorite little foreign state. It's a good thing that democracy is the justification for such stupid policy, for when the ultimate consequences hit home, inevitably, democracy will be tarnished. And then some.