Fascism and Christianity - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#13568102
Recently I have read posts and fascist literature which seems plainly anti-Christian in nature. Ex fascism focusses on survival of the fittest apposed to Christian "blessed are the meek". Then I see a leader like Francisco Franco who was a Fascist and as far as I can tell a Catholic. So my question to you my fascist friends is what is the official stance of the different brances of fascism to the Church?
User avatar
By Gustavus
#13568118
Don't know if Franco was a fascist. He was totalitarian, but not fascist. Sure he aligned with fascists/nationalists during the Civil War and probably took some inspiration from Mussolini, but that's probably it.

If remember correctly he had kicked out all fascists from his government by the end of World War II. He relied very much on the Catholic Church in Spain aswell, if he hadn't then the church wouldn't have been as free as it were nor gained as much influence.
By Preston Cole
#13568131
It's always been tricky to determine whether fascism is inherently tolerant of religion or not. The way Giovanni Gentile put it in The Doctrine of Fascism, it would appear Italian Fascism recognized an automatic alliance with the Catholic tradition of Italy, yet made it clear that this alliance was mostly a result of an inevitable affinity between conservative monarchists and the "post-intransigent" Fascists.

Then you have the Iron Guard, possibly the most mystical fascist organization following Himmler's SS, which recognized no distinction between State and Church, and sought to religiously transform the Romanian people. This was the case of Ante Pavellic's Ustashe as well. Due to the fact that Fascism resorts to palingenetic nationalism, it's inevitable that religion will go hand in hand with the historical survival of some nations. That's how the pro-religious Fascism is born.

However, we do also have the example of the extremely anticlerical Redshirts in Mexico, whose anti-religious killings certainly place them by the side of State Atheist Communism.

In practice, most fascist regimes were tolerant and sympathetic of religion. However, fascist doctrine rejects such Christian concepts as worldwide peace, pity, meekness and opposition to pride. It occupies a middle-way between materialism and spiritualism, combining the stress on action and emotion with scientific advances in warfare.
User avatar
By starman2003
#13568842
..most fascist regimes were tolerant and sympathetic of religion.


Of course; they had no choice, especially in strongly catholic countries like Spain and Italy. Even the nazis had to tread warily.

However, fascist doctrine rejects such Christian concepts as worldwide peace, pity, meekness..


Fundamentally, fascism is fully at odds with christianity. Fascism/wholism stress great worldly ambition and will to power, to the point of world conquest. Completely at odds with christian otherworldliness and humility. The original inspiration for fascism was pagan Rome, which threw the holy nitwits to the lions. Another modern inspiration was Darwinism. Basically, as Dawkins notes, christianity is the opposite of truth. It's not just that its view of the Universe, and origins, is archaic and wrong. Its own gospels and doctrines were largely contrived--see e.g. Ehrman's Jesus Interrupted. Now that christianity is being shown to be superfluous, at best, in light of modern science, and its own internal phoniness is becoming widely known, we had better base a new regime on a new, secular ideology. Initially, a little lip service might be necessary, but basically, to hell with holy hogwash. ;)
By Preston Cole
#13568947
Basically, as Dawkins notes, christianity is the opposite of truth. It's not just that its view of the Universe, and origins, is archaic and wrong. Its own gospels and doctrines were largely contrived

Exactly. Christianity, along with communism, is possibly the most dangerous form of idealistic egalitarianism, perhaps more so than communism. I'm constantly surprised that many people still believe a "Hell and Heaven" actually exist. What is the fucking criteria for sending people either way? How much you pray and think of God during the day? I'm definitely going to Hell if that's the case. :lol: Perhaps Heaven is the only of the two that doesn't really exist, either conceptually or realistically--hell, on the other hand, we can unleash with a few bombs.

Religion has had its share of good done. A moralistic view on life has never hurt anyone, and religion's been useful insofar, but its overly-spiritual connotations are for little kids. Maybe religion could someday be replaced with a philosophy that combines moralism and justicialism in a commonsensical way and won't resort to metaphysical explanations and promises, but will, at the same time, recognize that a moral life will bring not some tropical paradise in the clouds, but a stamp of morality and goodness on the individual and his community following his death. That's certainly the more rational option.
By Newfie-Con
#13569159
I would have to disagree with you, fascism is not by nature against Christianity. In regards to the comment that Christianity is "egaliterian", true Christianity (Roman Catholicism and to an extent the Orthodox) have always been against egalitarianism on a social level and the Church has ALWAYS upheld and supported the social order to prevent the ball of mob rule to start rolling. An example of this is when the truely egaliterian French Revolution took place the Church condemned such liberty as destructive and guess what those revolutionaries shut down in France until Napolean was forced to open them again... the Catholic parishes. In regards to fascism being based of pagan Rome, correction it was based of Ancient Rome and as Christ said "Render onto Caesar that which is Caesar's and Jesus was a model Roman citizen.
User avatar
By starman2003
#13569829
Preston, do you know where the notion of "heaven and hell" originally came from? I only learned recently from Ehrman. The earliest christians expected jesus himself to make a second coming, anytime and usher in "god's kingdom" on earth. People were supposed to be eternally rewarded or punished here.But decades rolled by without this happening and people were beginning to laugh. So by the end of the first century, christian writers, notably the one who produced the last canonical "gospel of john" generally abandoned the second coming bs and substituted "heaven and hell" for it. The key difference of course, is that "heaven and hell" can't be disproven. :lol:
However, I don't entirely dismiss the heaven and hell notions. I envisage a future in which far progressed science, aided, of course, by an activist, progressive State, can solve just about any health issue along with other problems, thus granting us a real world "heaven." But the future can also witness a real world hell--ironically for idiots, including die hard holy joes, who rank their mythical god over the real world one--the Great Man, or civilization itself.

Jesus was a model Roman citizen


:lol: :roll: Read modern scholarship, please...Jesus was a jewish apocalypticist, who taught that the present "evil" age, and the powers currently in charge, like Rome, would be overthrown by "god's kingdom" in which he and his disciples would rule. Jesus thought "god" would intervene in history and make him king. That's why Pilate ordered him crucified --it amounted to political rebellion against Rome. Pilate asked jesus if he was the king of the jews. Not inclined to "sin" by lying, jesus didn't deny it but gave a nonanswer which Pilate took as an admission of guilt.
Israel-Palestinian War 2023

Every accusation is a confession Why sexual v[…]

Deliberately ignoring evidence showing IDF air str[…]

Indeed. It is strange, but they're all over the in[…]

Russia-Ukraine War 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ay43E94W58 :D […]