[Daktoria]

Following is something posted by someone I know elsewhere, but it seems more conservative to me than fascist. Obviously, there's no link to avoid looking like an ad:

I have come to the conclusion that society and the individual can no longer remain two separate entities, doing battle against each other. It is time to recognize that the individual has a duty to their society and that society in turn has a responsibility to that individual. I think of the country, or society, as a body. Individuals are the cells, complete with their own function and role within society. In order for the cells to fulfill their role, the body must provide nutrition to the cells. I could go on with this scenario, but suffice to say I no longer can see that a society can function with a system where the body keeps attacking itself.

I feel like neither the left nor the right in this country, or others, believes in this balance and order. Although I believe all men (meaning persons) should have equal rights, I do not believe all men are, nor should they be equal in status. There are simply some people that are more important, make bigger/better decisions, have larger roles and functions in society than others. That doesn't make other people unimportant, but it means they need to find the correct role to perform to make society better. No matter what the role is, we should respect that the role helps others and supports the higher functioning roles. But we shouldn't elevate and compensate individuals beyond their worth. Going back to the body/cell analogy, a cell that makes up skin tissue on your pinkie is less important than a cell that helps keep a steady heart beat.

What our society is losing, is good order and discipline thanks to an on demand attitude and a desire for comfort and complacency without effort. Our society is also devoid of a moral center. I believe this is of utmost importance. It doesn't necessarily have to be religion, but a government must clearly draw lines in the sand as to what is acceptable, and what is not. Something that is taught, and reinforced at every level of society. And those who refuse to believe in that moral center should be removed, just as the body removes waste and damaged cells from itself. Filling the body with poison and letting its own sickness continues weakens everybody. Our society needs to be one that stays in motion, not one that becomes lethargic and handicapped by its own excesses. We need to keep our individuals healthy, but they must remain active. They must perform their role. We cannot give without a return on the investment anymore.

We need to realize our impact and our connection to each other. Rather than see each other as potential enemies (race, sex, orientation, class, politics, etc....) we need to realize our potential for contributing to our society, by recognizing each others roles as being important, can bring us together.

All in all, I believe our society is being ripped apart by the left and right. The body is attacking itself. We are no longer recognizing each other as making the better part of the whole. We are now looking at each others as enemies, even though we share the same body and perform the various functions to make society run. We have lost all respect for each other, and all respect for our body. And the body has lost all respect for the cell that makes it up. We are essentially paralyzing ourselves.

I believe that the only way forward is to embrace ideals of order, rank, discipline, respect, moral obligation to others, and that we place those who are capable of leading us into positions of leadership. We need the best in their fields to be recognized, rather than sustaining ourselves on what "feels good". Where are our next Mozart's & Beethoven's? There are musical geniuses out there, but we celebrate Katy Perry and Lady Gaga, for a little bit until the next flavor of the month comes along. Our scientists flounder in obscurity and wonder where funding will come from, while Doritos spends tens of millions of dollars on 30 second Super Bowl ads.

Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for pleasure. But it is not 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And those whom we elevate to a role model status should be held to a standard that makes others desire to positively impact their society as well.

[Wolfman]

I have come to the conclusion that society and the individual can no longer remain two separate entities, doing battle against each other. It is time to recognize that the individual has a duty to their society and that society in turn has a responsibility to that individual. I think of the country, or society, as a body. Individuals are the cells, complete with their own function and role within society. In order for the cells to fulfill their role, the body must provide nutrition to the cells

Very Communitarian position.

I could go on with this scenario, but suffice to say I no longer can see that a society can function with a system where the body keeps attacking itself.

Autoimmune disorders aren't fun.

I feel like neither the left nor the right in this country, or others, believes in this balance and order.

Because its mostly Fascists who hold that position.

Although I believe all men (meaning persons) should have equal rights, I do not believe all men are, nor should they be equal in status. There are simply some people that are more important, make bigger/better decisions, have larger roles and functions in society than others. That doesn't make other people unimportant, but it means they need to find the correct role to perform to make society better. No matter what the role is, we should respect that the role helps others and supports the higher functioning roles. But we shouldn't elevate and compensate individuals beyond their worth. Going back to the body/cell analogy, a cell that makes up skin tissue on your pinkie is less important than a cell that helps keep a steady heart beat.

Leaning towards Fascism here.

What our society is losing, is good order and discipline thanks to an on demand attitude and a desire for comfort and complacency without effort. Our society is also devoid of a moral centre. I believe this is of utmost importance. It doesn't necessarily have to be religion, but a government must clearly draw lines in the sand as to what is acceptable, and what is not. Something that is taught, and reinforced at every level of society. And those who refuse to believe in that moral centre should be removed, just as the body removes waste and damaged cells from itself. Filling the body with poison and letting its own sickness continues weakens everybody. Our society needs to be one that stays in motion, not one that becomes lethargic and handicapped by its own excesses. We need to keep our individuals healthy, but they must remain active. They must perform their role. We cannot give without a return on the investment anymore.

Leaning towards Fascism again

We need to realize our impact and our connection to each other. Rather than see each other as potential enemies (race, sex, orientation, class, politics, etc....) we need to realize our potential for contributing to our society, by recognizing each others roles as being important, can bring us together.

Class/race/etc collaboration. Again, fairly fascist.

All in all, I believe our society is being ripped apart by the left and right. The body is attacking itself. We are no longer recognizing each other as making the better part of the whole. We are now looking at each others as enemies, even though we share the same body and perform the various functions to make society run. We have lost all respect for each other, and all respect for our body. And the body has lost all respect for the cell that makes it up. We are essentially paralyzing ourselves.

Communitarian again.

I believe that the only way forward is to embrace ideals of order, rank, discipline, respect, moral obligation to others, and that we place those who are capable of leading us into positions of leadership. We need the best in their fields to be recognized, rather than sustaining ourselves on what "feels good".

Meritocracy or Military Statist. Fascism in reality, if not name.

Where are our next Mozart's & Beethoven's? There are musical geniuses out there, but we celebrate Katy Perry and Lady Gaga, for a little bit until the next flavor of the month comes along.

Conservative or Reactionary position.

Our scientists flounder in obscurity and wonder where funding will come from, while Doritos spends tens of millions of dollars on 30 second Super Bowl ads.

Angry futurist position.

So, the results are overwhelming, dudes probably more interested in Fascism then Conservatism. Granted, all he's said is the mentality of Fascists, not the actual policies, which would be anti-democratic (hinted at, but never said) and probably Corporatist.

[Rei Murasame]

The person being quoted has yet to mention the issues of spiritual regeneration, economic co-ordination, or national rebirth. Also missing is any reference to an upcoming epochal change, the inauguration of a new age, or anything like that.

So from that quote it is not possible to ascertain whether the person is Fascist.

[Jackal]

No real mention of corporatism or national syndicalism so it is fairly difficult to truly determine if this person is a fascist. However, he possesses many of the same views as many "fascists" (especially on this board and its off-shoots) in terms of social ideas. That being said, it would not surprise me if many P&D hounds write him off as a fascist based off of that post.

For all we know, he can be an ultraconservative capitalist that supports a free market (as long as it does not damage the social values of the state) and uses ideas of class collaboration to get the lower classes to (indirectly) agree to become oppressed laborers of large companies.

[GunsnRoses]

And those who refuse to believe in that moral centre should be removed, just as the body removes waste and damaged cells from itself.

I found this a rather scary bit. I don't know exactly what he means by removed but it is awfully close to Nazi - rhetorics. Also the whole metaphore of the body with 'less important' cells, a way to make people look less (they are just 'weaker/lower'cells who have to be removed) resembles hateful speeches by those who want to encourage hatred or murder. (Jews are dogs, Tutsi's are cockroaches etc. etc.)

[Vedic Viking]

That’s a fairly standard right-wing view – it has a view of society as a social organism (as opposed to individualism), a worldview based on philosophical idealism (as opposed to materialism) and a preference for hierarchy over equality. You can’t really position it more specifically with the political right than that.

And the ‘left and right’ he refers to is either socialism and liberalism; or social liberalism and classical liberalism. His views are to the right of both.

[Fraqtive42]

I have come to the conclusion that society and the individual can no longer remain two separate entities, doing battle against each other. It is time to recognize that the individual has a duty to their society and that society in turn has a responsibility to that individual. I think of the country, or society, as a body. Individuals are the cells, complete with their own function and role within society. In order for the cells to fulfill their role, the body must provide nutrition to the cells. I could go on with this scenario, but suffice to say I no longer can see that a society can function with a system where the body keeps attacking itself.

Organic Theory of the State, along with Collectivism and an implicit criticism of the Liberal/Libertarian conception of the self.

I feel like neither the left nor the right in this country, or others, believes in this balance and order. Although I believe all men (meaning persons) should have equal rights, I do not believe all men are, nor should they be equal in status. There are simply some people that are more important, make bigger/better decisions, have larger roles and functions in society than others. That doesn't make other people unimportant, but it means they need to find the correct role to perform to make society better. No matter what the role is, we should respect that the role helps others and supports the higher functioning roles. But we shouldn't elevate and compensate individuals beyond their worth. Going back to the body/cell analogy, a cell that makes up skin tissue on your pinkie is less important than a cell that helps keep a steady heart beat.

Centrism, along with the Organic Theory of the State again.

What our society is losing, is good order and discipline thanks to an on demand attitude and a desire for comfort and complacency without effort. Our society is also devoid of a moral centre. I believe this is of utmost importance. It doesn't necessarily have to be religion, but a government must clearly draw lines in the sand as to what is acceptable, and what is not. Something that is taught, and reinforced at every level of society. And those who refuse to believe in that moral centre should be removed, just as the body removes waste and damaged cells from itself. Filling the body with poison and letting its own sickness continues weakens everybody. Our society needs to be one that stays in motion, not one that becomes lethargic and handicapped by its own excesses. We need to keep our individuals healthy, but they must remain active. They must perform their role. We cannot give without a return on the investment anymore.

A strongly Communitarian-Reactionary position, with more of the Organic Theory and more criticism of the greed that Liberal-Individualism can lead to.

We need to realize our impact and our connection to each other. Rather than see each other as potential enemies (race, sex, orientation, class, politics, etc....) we need to realize our potential for contributing to our society, by recognizing each others roles as being important, can bring us together.

This position has a fascist core.

All in all, I believe our society is being ripped apart by the left and right. The body is attacking itself. We are no longer recognizing each other as making the better part of the whole. We are now looking at each others as enemies, even though we share the same body and perform the various functions to make society run. We have lost all respect for each other, and all respect for our body. And the body has lost all respect for the cell that makes it up. We are essentially paralyzing ourselves.

More Organic Theory, along with more opposition to Liberal-Individualism.

I believe that the only way forward is to embrace ideals of order, rank, discipline, respect, moral obligation to others, and that we place those who are capable of leading us into positions of leadership. We need the best in their fields to be recognized, rather than sustaining ourselves on what "feels good". Where are our next Mozart's & Beethoven's? There are musical geniuses out there, but we celebrate Katy Perry and Lady Gaga, for a little bit until the next flavor of the month comes along. Our scientists flounder in obscurity and wonder where funding will come from, while Doritos spends tens of millions of dollars on 30 second Super Bowl ads.

A position shared by both Conservatives and Fascists.

Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for pleasure. But it is not 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And those whom we elevate to a role model status should be held to a standard that makes others desire to positively impact their society as well.

More criticisms of Liberal-Individualism.
____

I think it can safely be said that this position is explicitly Communitarian or Integralist, without necessarily being Fascist (as it doesn't go as far as mentioning palingenetic ultranationalism, dictatorship, national rebirth, realpolitik, collective darwinism, etc.). It can also safely be assumed that whoever wrote this probably favors a Corporatist or Syndicalist form of social organization, most likely the former.

[mikema63]

i personally never trust any political analogy that uses metaphors that reduce people to something mindless with no thoughts or desires of their own. even if you are a collectivist ignoring that is a quick way to oppression and ignoring peoples freedoms in order to achieve the leaders perceived goals.

came off as edging dangerously close to fascism.

[Americanroyalty]

He's a faciast in spirit even if he doesn't espouse any one viewpoint. It's too general overall, but there are mentions of unity, personal responsibilty and responsibility to the state. He brings up important problems like declining work ethic, but I'm not sure facism is the answer. Facisim in it's idealized form has a certain utilitarion (for the common good) theme to it. But theory falls appart once put into practice. People are generally self-serving and none more so than the people leading a facist movement. So facisim generally becomes corrupt from within.

[Soixante-Retard]

I have come to the conclusion that society and the individual can no longer remain two separate entities...

Fascist.

That was easy, all I had to do was read the first line!

[Fraqtive42]

Fascist.

That was easy, all I had to do was read the first line!

Why is it necessarily a fascist proposition?

[Soixante-Retard]

Why is it necessarily a fascist proposition?

Fascism doesn't recognize the individual. But that is not to say that viewpoint is unique to fascism.

[Fraqtive42]

Fascism doesn't recognize the individual. But that is not to say that viewpoint is unique to fascism.

I'm not so sure that the proposition implies utter devaluation of the individual, but the viewpoint definitely isn't unique to fascism and could instead imply a more collectivist-conservative approach. The statement could be decisively characterized as fascist only once it mentions palingenetic ultranationalism, social darwinism, etc. (as I said earlier).

[Preston Cole]

I'm pretty sure he's just trolling.

[The Immortal Goon]

Agreed. Anyway, getting a libertarian to define a socio-political orientation is like asking vegan to judge the taste of different meats.

[Potemkin]

I have come to the conclusion that society and the individual can no longer remain two separate entities...



Fascist.

That was easy, all I had to do was read the first line!

In fact, wishing to end the contradiction between the individual and society as a whole is common to a broad spectrum of political positions, from (traditional European) conservatism, to fascism, to Communism. It therefore tells you very little, aside from the fact that he's probably not a Libertarian.

[Soixante-Retard]

In fact, wishing to end the contradiction between the individual and society as a whole is common to a broad spectrum of political positions, from (traditional European) conservatism, to fascism, to Communism. It therefore tells you very little, aside from the fact that he's probably not a Libertarian.

Granted. But whenever Fascism and the individual are mention together, the quotation that immediately comes to mind is:

All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

Fascism certainly does not recognize individualism. Whereas individualism is the sacred cow to [l]ibertarians. To quote from Karl Popper (a staunch defender of individualism):

If the growth of reason is to continue, and human rationality to survive, then the diversity of individuals and their opinions, aims, and purposes must never be interfered with…. Even the emotionally satisfying appeal for a common purpose, however excellent, is an appeal to abandon all rival moral opinions and the cross-criticisms and arguments to which they give rise. It is an appeal to abandon rational thought.

[Potemkin]

Fascism certainly does not recognize individualism. Whereas individualism is the sacred cow to [l]ibertarians.

Indeed. Which is why I said that it tells you little beyond the fact that he's probably not a Libertarian. Lots of ideologies do not recognise individualism as trumping the interests of society as a whole, not just fascism.