[Political Interest]

In my study of the particulars of fascism I have read a website which said that National Socialism was not racist. According to its claim NS was racial idealist as opposed to racist. The idea was to create the ideal race and man as opposed to believing in the superiority of an ethnic group for its own sake. It claims the Nazis had immigrants in Germany and that National Socialists should not oppose immigration.

Was NS racist as such people claim or is this simply a modern interpretation?

[Daktoria]

Link?

[Andropov]

Of course they were racist. They believed Germans were the supreme race; Hitler attributed the achievements of the Ancient Greeks and Romans to "Germanic" blood.

[Political Interest]

Link?

I do not want to link such materials.

Irrelevant. National Socialism was racist and anyone who says otherwise needs to be beaten to death with a brick

Yes. Nuremberg laws and genocide.

Of course they were racist. They believed Germans were the supreme race; Hitler attributed the achievements of the Ancient Greeks and Romans to "Germanic" blood.

This is the key factor.

[Orestes]

In my study of the particulars of fascism I have read a website which said that National Socialism was not racist. According to its claim NS was racial idealist as opposed to racist. The idea was to create the ideal race and man as opposed to believing in the superiority of an ethnic group for its own sake. It claims the Nazis had immigrants in Germany and that National Socialists should not oppose immigration.

Sounds like musings of the "alternative" Nazis such as David Myatt or Norman Lowell.

In any case make no mistake, it's of course a steaming pile of bullshit.

I remember Houston Stewart Chamberlain said somewhere that "even if it was proven Aryan race has never existed, we would like it to appear in the future." Perhaps they base their claims on these kind of statements totally peripheral to NS ideology.

Can you PM this link, PI ? I'd like to read it.

[J Oswald]

An integral component of National Socialism was the superiority of Nordic peoples above all others. Whatever link you read was historical revisionist drivel.

[Jackal]

I think the fact that you yourself object to linking the shit source of these claims tells you not to believe it.

[Section Leader]

You cannot be a National Socialist without being a racist, the only question is who you are racist against and the intensity of that racism. Some Nazis liked or at least tolerated Slavs, while others thought the Slavs were the scum of the European peoples. Hostility to Jews is intrinsic in National Socialism, but again there's difference of opinion about what form that hostility should take. The Strasserists believed the Jews were a menace primarily on economic grounds and sought to use economic means to rid Germany of them, while the Nazis more interested in racial theory thought the Jews were biological vermin.

Needless to say, all Nazis agree that the Nordic Aryan man is the superior race.

[Political Interest]

Sounds like musings of the "alternative" Nazis such as David Myatt or Norman Lowell.

Yes Myatt's materials are referenced heavily.

In any case make no mistake, it's of course a steaming pile of bullshit.

It is my opinion that it is. It is critical usually to all these revisionist NS ideologies that they deny the holocaust of twelve million Slavs, Jews, Gypsies and others. With the holocaust they cannot deny that Hitler and the NS ideologues were racists.

I remember Houston Stewart Chamberlain said somewhere that "even if it was proven Aryan race has never existed, we would like it to appear in the future." Perhaps they base their claims on these kind of statements totally peripheral to NS ideology.

Yes, they are "racial idealists". Apparently for them the ethnicity means nothing, it is only part of rising to a greater collective self. In their view any race can become the Aryan master race.

An integral component of National Socialism was the superiority of Nordic peoples above all others. Whatever link you read was historical revisionist drivel.

Apparently they claim this is not true but everyone else says it is.

I think the fact that you yourself object to linking the shit source of these claims tells you not to believe it.

Yes because those years are in the collective memory of all of us so we do not accept it.

You cannot be a National Socialist without being a racist, the only question is who you are racist against and the intensity of that racism. Some Nazis liked or at least tolerated Slavs, while others thought the Slavs were the scum of the European peoples. Hostility to Jews is intrinsic in National Socialism, but again there's difference of opinion about what form that hostility should take.

Yes. These people claim they are trying to "reclaim National Socialism" from dishonour.

[The Immortal Goon]

Yes. These people claim they are trying to "reclaim National Socialism" from dishonour.

It's always a little baffling to me that they do so by denying racism. "Hey, I just think that Jews are insidious monsters, blacks can't control themselves, and Latinos are lazy people scheming to take white people's jobs. But I'm not a racist! I'm just a racial realist!"

Or, "I hate black people—but I guess now the PC police is going to come around and call me a 'racist'!"

As if that would be an absurd claim to make with the given information.

Why don't these people just own it? Why try to dance around the idea of them being racist if they do, in fact, boil everything down to race?

[telluro]

From what I typically understand there was a combination of both racism and racial idealism (which is itself a type of racism anyway) - they believed the Nordic race to be superior but they also wanted to create the Aryan master race through some sort of purification, a racial sublimation so to speak. The Nazis did not hold any existing race to be the master race - simply one existing race, the Nordics, was closest to that ideally pure race. The idea was to breed back to that race, just as today we see farmers breeding back to original livestocks - recently an extinct Maltese bull was re-bred in this manner.

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... ife.321825

[Martyer]

I believe that National Socialism as a political ideology is not racist. The National Socialist German Workers’ Party implemented a number of policies which were for the good of their people and those of the future, many of these policies are now implemented by our own governments. After World War I, Germany went into the depression because the nation was blamed for starting the war, out of all people, Hitler came and rescued Germany.

Under Hitler's leadership, the relationships between the workers and factory owners improved, work breaks were increased for workers, concerts and other forms of entertainment were available at the work places, crime rates went down, health and family values advanced, researches on cancers were funded, education concerning health issues were started, cars were made affordable to the working-class, new roads and bridges were built, unemployment rates decreased and the list can probably go on and on.

While others think Hitler was stupid, my belief is the opposite. I'd like to see them try taking over a nation and improving a country's economy from depressions. In order to gain such enormous trust from the people, one needs talents, intelligence and passions. Hitler was obviously a German nationalist and the perfect candidate for the country. If Hitler was insane, then everybody who believed him must also be insane or dumb enough to trust an insane person. This man was even nominated for Noble Peace Prize in 1938 and 1939 for his achievements.

What Hitler did with the people in concentration camps was the only thing that overshadowed all of his accomplishments. It was immoral, sick, evil, and cruel in every possible way. But Hitler sure was not the only person involved. If you're going to blame Hitler, you should also blame other people who were involved. There were even many Jewish people who worked with Hitler and supported him, but I suspected that they didn't know about the concentration camps. I am not talking about Hitler supporters who knew nothing about the Holocaust while it was happening at the time. I am talking about the concentration camps staff who did their jobs voluntary while knowing fully well what they were doing.

Hitler's plans in taking and killing all of his enemies makes sense, although I do not support the way he went about it. People die in every war. It is natural, isn't it? You can either win the war through compromises or fight until there is no enemy left. If I was a close-minded person who wants everything to be under my rule, I would have done the same thing Hitler did. Then again, it would be too tiring if you have to kill everyone on the planet that ever disagree with you.

To many of us, Hitler is an evil man for killing millions of innocent people in the concentration camps. However, if you're looking from a German nationalist's point of view, Hitler would probably be the perfect leader. It is because Hitler was willing to do everything to bring prosperity to Germany again, even kill millions of Jewish, gays, and others. Maybe Hitler's personal hatred against those victims had a lot to do with it. Nonetheless, his tactic worked while the war lasted. He truly did love himself and his country.

Hitler was a smart leader with 'evil'. intentions, I also realized that he was unstable towards the end of World War II. He took the easy way out and committed suicide along with the rest of his family. Perhaps it would be considered as a honor killing since he knew if he got caught, he would be killed eventually. His wife and children would be under a lot of pressure too. Committing a suicide was the only notable way for a man like him to die after all.

[Decky]

What Hitler did with the people in concentration camps was the only thing that overshadowed all of his accomplishments.

The 25 million dead Soviets? The majority of whom were civilians? Or was that one of his accomplishments?

The annexation of the Czechs?

Fucking Nazis.

[Martyer]

The 25 million dead Soviets? The majority of whom were civilians? Or was that one of his accomplishments?

They were not all killed by Hitler, a lot of these people were killed deliberatley by the Soviets themselves.

The annexation of the Czechs?

Fucking Nazis.

Hitler wanted to assert his superiority and through his political ideology, viewed that inferior societies like Czechoslovakia needed to be wiped out in order to make way for a superior new order. Hitler's infamous dislike of the Jews was closely followed by his dislike of Poles and Czechs, all of whom he wished to subjugate if not completely eliminate.

It was a brilliant military and political decision, by overtaking one of its border nations, Germany could strengthen its own defenses. Furthermore, possession of Czechoslovakia would provide Germany with improved access to eastern lands.

[Preston Cole]

:eh:

The 25 million dead Soviets? The majority of whom were civilians? Or was that one of his accomplishments?

The Eastern Front was a total war, a battle to the death. That so many Russian civilians died is unfortunate, but I still maintain that the invasion was a necessary "surgical" operation to rid Europe of communism for 100 years, as Hitler put it.

As for his accomplishments, no one in their right mind, with the obvious exception of liberal bleeding-hearts and frustrated Stalinists, can deny that National Socialism regained Germany's honor in record time. There's nothing more beautiful than to see a crushed and humiliated nation rise up in a monstrous furor and bomb the cities that imposed said humiliation a while back (London and Paris).

Of course, such accomplishments would be frowned upon by today's cosplayers who've been taught to worship weakness.

The annexation of the Czechs?

Fucking Nazis. :roll:

The annexation of the Baltics?

Fucking commies.

[Martyer]

As for his accomplishments, no one in their right mind, with the obvious exception of liberal bleeding-hearts and frustrated Stalinists, can deny that National Socialism regained Germany's honor in record time.

I hate how our history has been written to suppress every positive aspect of National Socialism. Hitler had to centralize to rid his country of the capitalist who had helped ruin it. It is one of the only times in history that a country that was flat on it's back and raised itself up in under four years.

There was a speech by Adolf Hitler on April 28, 1939 where he stated what he believed was his accomplishments.

"...I overcame chaos in Germany, restored order, enormously raised production in all fields of our national economy...I succeeded in completely resettling in useful production those 7 million unemployed who so touched our hearts...I have not only politically united the German nation but also rearmed it militarily, and I have further tried to liquidate that Treaty sheet by sheet whose 448 Articles contain the vilest rape that nations and human beings have ever been expected to submit to. I have restored to the Reich the provinces grabbed from us in 1919; I have led millions of deeply unhappy Germans, who have been snatched away from us, back into the Fatherland; I have restored the thousand year old historical unity of German living space; and I have attempted to accomplish all that without shedding blood and without inflicting the sufferings of war on my people or any other. I have accomplished all this, as one who 21 years ago still an unknown worker and soldier of my people, by my own efforts..."

[Soixante-Retard]

I have read a website which said that National Socialism was not racist. According to its claim NS was racial idealist as opposed to racist.

That which needs to be deduced, then, is what does the website mean by "racist"?

The idea was to create the ideal race

Indeed it was; the Aryan race.

as opposed to believing in the superiority of an ethnic group for its own sake.

But the Nazis were supremacists in the sense that the Aryan race was the übermensch and the Jews and Slavs were the untermensch. But the Slavs and Jews being considered untermensch didn't spring up with the advent of the Nazis. The Jews and Slavs had been persecuted for centuries before; they were considered the pariahs of Europe. European slaves were mostly Slav, indeed that is where the term slave comes from; Slav.

It claims the Nazis had immigrants in Germany and that National Socialists should not oppose immigration.

I don't think they opposed immigration of anyone not part of the untermensch. So, for example, they welcomed ethnically African peoples.

Was NS racist as such people claim or is this simply a modern interpretation?

Yes, the Nazis were racist because Nazi ideology presupposes that different races exist.

[Andropov]

They were not all killed by Hitler, a lot of these people were killed deliberatley by the Soviets themselves.

Absolutely baseless slander. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest that significant numbers of Soviet civilians were killed "deliberatley" by their own army or government during WW2.

[Orestes]

I don't think they opposed immigration of anyone not part of the untermensch. So, for example, they welcomed ethnically African peoples.

Uhm, SR, where did you get that bit from ? The official treatment of Blacks in NS Germany was better than that of other ethnic minorities, but only because there were so little of them they weren't seen as any significant factor.

Virtually in the whole Western world at the time Africans were perceived to be Untermenschen by default (and there was also the Rhineland Bastard group Hitler railled against). I can't see for the life of me how Nazis could actually "welcome" them in the Third Reich.



"Degenerate music"



"The result ! Racial pride is lost."

[Bounce]

Uhm, SR, where did you get that bit from ? The official treatment of Blacks in NS Germany was better than that of other ethnic minorities, but only because there were so little of them they weren't seen as any significant factor.

Virtually in the whole Western world at the time Africans were perceived to be Untermenschen by default (and there was also the Rhineland Bastard group Hitler railled against). I can't see for the life of me how Nazis could actually "welcome" them in the Third Reich.

Many of the 'Rhineland Bastards' were sterilised as well.

If anyone wants to know Nazi Germany's racial standpoint, they should read National Socialist Racial Thought by dr Walter Groß in the book Germany Speaks. It's prefaced by Von Ribbentrop; and was written to improve diplomatic relations with England prior to the war.

National Socialist racial thought was largely built up on a misunderstanding of genetic links: through "organic, racial lines whose main care is the preservation of greatness and along with it the essential unity of his people held together by the ties of blood relationship".

Find it here